I don't think your bullet specialist knows squat. Every pellet or bullet hole I have seen in glass resulted in blowout (funnel) shape on the backside of the glass. It's difficult to say if it fully penetrated. I have replaced the glass covers on electric meters that have what appears to be a hole completely thru from being shot with a pellet/ BB gun yet not a pellet or BB was recovered inside the meter. It would be hard to tell at what distance it was shot becuase of the wide variance in velocities in such guns. A steel BB would be more likely to bounce than a pellet.

Damn that Ralpie and his Red Rider............................

 

Hi,

Thanks for a quick response. Thanks for your expertise.
What you wrote makes sense to me. My gut feeling tells me that what you say is correct.
However, does anyone else have anything to add, or perhaps maybe somebody disagrees with dakotashooter2?
Maybe others have had different experiences. I want to be really really sure when i call the cops again and they come back to
re-investigate.

Robbie d

 

I have to agree, shot from the outside. If I read correctly you said the broke out area/funnel was on the inside. Definately shot from outside

 

Hi,

Thanks, Kelly Hannan.

I am really shocked. When i called 911 this morning and explained that the cops were here yesterday and said they told me "shot from the inside", i explained that i had asked some people in a hunting forum for their opinion. I explained that you nice people are disagreeing with the police, and i asked for another investigation.

Two different cops came over. They placed their fingers into the funnel on the inside of the window and agreed with what the other two cops said yesterday - "shot from the inside going out".

It's as if they didn't want to disagree with the other two cops.

I tried to explain that it's simple physics - that for example, if i drove a nail into a piece of sheet metal, that the point of entry would be clean and that the point of exit would be jagged.
I also said that if they fired their gun at my metal mailbox that the force of the bullet would push the metal from the outside to the inside and that the inside of the mailbox would be jagged.

They looked at me and said "Do you think you know more than us about this?"
I said, "Now i do, yes."
I said, "I'm a little surprised that you guys are cops and you can't see the plain and simple logic here."
They said, "We are not specialists. The specialist was here yesterday and he told you it looks like it came from the inside."

I'll make another post momentarily to show some photos for you all to look at and decide upon.
The forum page is bouncing up and down making it difficult to see the bottom lines of this post.

Robbie d

 

Here are the photos.

This was taken from the outside looking in. The outside surface of the window is flat with a little hole. The funnel you see is on the other side of the window - on the inside. The various lines you see are from the sticky paper i cover my windows with to create a "frosted window" look. You can see at the bottom of the hole how the paper was "torn" away. Of course, the sticky paper is on the inside of the windows (just for clarification).

This photo is from the outside looking in with a pencil tip placed into the hole. Again the funnel is on the other side of the pencil.

This photo taken from outside shows the pencil beside the hole. Again the funnel is on the other side of the pencil.

Taken from the inside. The camera lens was placed on the right side of the hole, pointed to the left side.

Taken from the inside. Same angle as the previous photo but with the pencil tip in the hole.

Another photo from the inside looking out but with a slightly different angle. The lens, again, was positioned at the right side of the hole looking to the left side.

Now that you can all see the hole, do you all still agree that this shot was fired from the outside? I know it was fired from the outside. I just can't believe the cops can see the logic.

What a way to spend Christmas Day!

Thanks again, for your expertise.
Robbie d

 

Definately shot from outside. I imagine he would have been close to shoot through the window with a regular run of the mill pellet gun (300-400 FPS).

 

I have broke a few windows in my day, shot from outside.

 

HI.

You are correct, Sask hunter, about the distance from the gun barrel to the window.
Look at this photo of my window from across the street. The window with the hole is on the right hand side.
The shooter must have went up the stairs and stood just outside of the window and fired.

Thanks.

Robbie d

 

Tell the so called investagator to do a Google search of BB Hole in Window. I just did and all sories confirm, shot from outside

 

Hi,

Thanks, Kelly Hannan.

When i told them that i was talking to people in a hunting forum on the internet, they rolled their eyes and said, "You can't believe everything you read on the internet."
Isn't that amazing? In this day and age, they'd refuse to acknowledge the simple truths of what people on the internet say.

However, when they want to nab someone for cyber crimes, the first thing they do is seize their pc to look at the websites the accused goes to.
People can even report what people say on the net and the police will investigate if it involves death threats or desires to commit suicide be it on facebook or twitter or whatever other social media websites exist.

I see here, either, a conflict of interests or just plain ignorance on the police's part. I am not sure what to choose out of the two.

Robbie d

 

id say take a piece of similar glass that wont shatter when shot and shoot it and then it will be pretty obvious which side is gunna funnel like that, but even so, id say the chances of finding out who did it are slim, probly just someone being stupid out there unless they are doing it to a bunch of peoples houses

 

Hi,

I am trying to find a video on youtube that would demonstrate what happens when a pellet (or BB) is shot at a glass window.

Maybe someone can assist in my search. So far i found nothing when i searched in youtube for "BB gun fired at a window".
Photos can be photoshopped but a video from start to finish showing the results in a non stop video would be perfect evidence that it was shot from the outside. I don't own any firearms to try this myself, Heck, if i did own one, the cops would look at me as a suspect lol. Can't have that.

That sticky paper can be purchased in most hardware stores. Maybe someone from this site can buy a small piece of that paper and stick it to a thick piece of glass and take a shot at it and record it with a camcorder and upload it to youtube and then place the youtube link in here. That would be really great and it would surely help prove my, and all of your, point(s) about the shot being fired from the outside. I doubt they could deny it if it's in a video. Just a thought.

Robbie d

 

Hi,

Hmm...well that could be possible, coyote_buster, but please read what i quoted from my first post in this thread.

...I think the downstairs neighbor's son may have shot at my window because his father received a $148.00 fine for the barking dog offense. I think it's revenge....

Their son, who is around my age, three years ago, told me he would get the guys upstairs from me to "get me" for walking heavy on the floor with my bare footed heels. I have gout and it's difficult to walk quietly.

I mentioned that threat to all four of the cops, and they said, "Well, that was three years ago."

I never knew that a threat had an "expiration date".

When you learn about Montreal, Quebec, you will learn that the majority of the population are French speaking. English speaking people here are not very welcome in most cases. We are only "tolerated" as a minority.
They are nice to tourists because they need your dollars but the French-government political-ministers of Quebec are trying to make it VERY difficult for the English speakers to be happy here. They, on the whole, would like all the English OUT of Quebec. Meanwhile, they watch all Hollywood movies dubbed into French, they sing along with all the English top 10 hits - even if they don't understand what they are singing about. I thought they wanted all of the English out! :-?

Just google-search the situation about when the Montreal Canadiens hockey team recently recruited a unilingual English-speaking-only coach. The whole province is angry, saying that this is disrespectful to all the French people of Quebec. They say that the coach of the Habs should be able to speak French. The habs, by the way, only has two French speaking players on the team.

Just google "Quebec's language police" in youtube or google to see what i mean. That is just one aspect of the language problems we have here. They are trying to shut down all the English schools, they force all new immigrants to Quebec to learn to speak French before they learn English, they force new immigrants to place their children into French-only schools.
It's like a quite genocide is taking place, here, in Montreal, Quebec, Canada.

Robbie d

 

I suspect one of the problems is the people you are dealing with. If I understand correctly you are in Montreal. The Officers are likely born and raised in that urban atmosphere and know little about firearms except their training on how to shoot them. Many kknow. Nothing about ballistics but think that their goverment given right to carry a firearm makes them knowledgeable. This is a very common occurance even in the US.

I also talked to a couple friends who are on the local police force who also confirmed that i was shot from the outside. They just shook their heads when I told them about this.

It is my understanding that the largest segment of anti gun sentiment in Canada comes from cities like Montreal.

I will note that I have seen the funnel on the outside when very thick glass (3/16 or more) is involved but in those cases there was not full penetration. If I remember I will get a picture of a glass meter cover that was shot.

 

Hi,

Thank you, dakotashooter2.
That would be interesting to see.
Maybe the cops here, in Montreal, would say an extremely little person was inside the meter and shot out from inside the meter. :lol:

Quebec is the largest province in Canada in terms of land mass. Ontario has the biggest population.
Many Frenchmen, here, are hunters. I had a French girlfriend once and some of her brothers took me into the woods to shoot with bows and arrows, and rifles. They had a small cabin in the woods.

They would tell me stories about when they were little. Their dad would get a pair of skiis and some deer hoofs mounted on sticks and make tracks every Christmas eve when the kids were sleeping, and then in the morning, they would call the kids outside to see the all tracks in the snow. No one could ever tell those kids there was no Santa Claus. They had " proof".

I still can't believe the ignorance of the four policemen who came to look at the hole and said it came from inside. I knew it came from outside even if i didn't know how a bullet or pellet hole looks.
After talking with you nice folks, i felt pretty sure about what i was telling them - but still, they weren't buying any of it.

I am not a gun owner. So i really don't follow any of the news on the radio and television about long-gun registration laws. I know there are movements here and in some other Canadian cities, as well, to make everyone register their firearms. When i hear that topic being discussed in the media, i listen with disinterest because it doesn't really concern me.

Yes, i am in Montreal. Born and raised, here.

There was a tragic event, in Montreal, in 1989, when a young man walked into a university and opened fire, killing twenty-eight people.
For more information on that story and the gun laws caused by that incident, please see the following link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/École_Polytechnique_massacre

As far as supposedly knowing about ballistics, the first officer said he was a ballistics specialist, and he tried to re-assure me it came from the inside even though i knew it didn't. They first two both looked like they were in their mid 20's. The second two looked like one was in his mid 20's and the other guy looked about 35. Go figure.
Ridiculous, eh?

Robbie d

 

Take a piece of glass and shoot a few pellets or BB's at it and see how the hole breaks.

I shoot a lot of high powered pellet rifles. Asking what rifle could do it is a waste of time as many low powered rifles could do what you see and do it easily. Both pellet and BB guns, rifles as well as pistols.

This is more likely a BB than a pellet. BB's are steel and pellets generally lead or a lead/metal compound. They tend to hit and splatter or deform tho some can bounce back a bit. BB's will bounce back a lot.

Get someone with a BB gun and pellet gun and run your tests. Then get a game camera and monitor the situation if you are still worried.

Some good places to check and ask your questions:

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/

http://airgun-academy.pyramydair.com/blog/

I shoot regularly and this summer used pellet rifles for exterminating pest Muskrats. Road damage due to the rodents burrowing under roadways alonside the sloughs where we live. I only shot alongside the gravel and dirt roads.(we are in farming country with lots of prairie potholes alongside the farm to market roads) Without going out specifically hunting them, just shooting as I drove to work/town and back I nailed 508 for the summer. Also a few rabid raccoons and skunks as well as 8 raccoons that tried to get through our yard area and were held at bay by our dogs. A couple of coyotes as well.

Pellet rifles aren't toys, certainly not the higher end models.
Benjamin has a really nice new .357 model called the Rogue. You are talking muzzle loader power and very quiet in shooting. A repeater to take deer and wild hogs.

Larger air rifles have been used to take Bison to Gazelle to Antelope. The site below will give you info on this as the writer is an excellent hunter with the air rifles.

http://www.americanairgunhunter.com/airgun_hunter.html

Good luck.

 

Land lord its his place to repair the window. doesn't matter where the shot came from really but if he was to try to stiff you then there are all types of evidence from kellys searching to prove the cops havwe their heads where the sun doesn't ever shine.

Have a great 2012

Al

 

In my 32 years with the police department here I've investigated hundreds of these. That is a hit from a BB and was fired from the outside. I'm a bit surprised that anyone, much less a "specialist" would conclude otherwise.

huntin1

 

Happy New Year.

Thanks for all your responses.

Lots of good advice has been offered.
However, i will not buy a BB gun and shoot a window and then show a photo of it to the cops. They will only think i made the initial hole seeing as i'd have a BB gun in my possession.

I agree with those of you who are shocked by the "specialist" saying it came from the inside. I was pretty flabbergasted to hear that assessment when they came over to investigate the hole.
I will request the police report soon to see what the report says. I certainly do not want a police report to say that it looks like it came from the inside. That would be a real pain to have a police report corrected, i think. That would only mean that the so called "specialist" was a bumbling boob They don't like to correct each other - they'd rather just agree, even it it's wrong -something to do with the word, "brotherhood", i'm sure.

Robbie

 

Happy New Year.

Thanks for all your responses.

Lots of good advice has been offered.
However, i will not buy a BB gun and shoot a window and then show a photo of it to the cops. They will only think i made the initial hole seeing as i'd have a BB gun in my possession.

I agree with those of you who are shocked by the "specialist" saying it came from the inside. I was pretty flabbergasted to hear that assessment when they came over to investigate the hole.
I will request the police report soon to see what the report says. I certainly do not want a police report to say that it looks like it came from the inside. That would be a real pain to have a police report corrected, i think. That would only mean that the so called "specialist" was a bumbling boob They don't like to correct each other - they'd rather just agree, even it it's wrong -something to do with the word, "brotherhood", i'm sure.

Robbie

They were probably thinking "Hey, who wants to go investigate a pellet gun shot through a window?" "Arthur, you are the "specialist" on this one. The "specialist" is a complete moron, and is probably not a specialist. They were probably thinking that this whole trip to your place is a waste of their time.

 

When I was in school some kids shot the windows in one of our classrooms with a pellet gun and the holes looked exactly like the one in the picture. Small hole on the outside with blowout on the inside. 100% that pellet came from the outside.

 

They were probably thinking "Hey, who wants to go investigate a pellet gun shot through a window?" "Arthur, you are the "specialist" on this one. The "specialist" is a complete moron, and is probably not a specialist. They were probably thinking that this whole trip to your place is a waste of their time.

Oh, i agree 100% with that. They didn't even put their names on the 911 call-event. They knew they were bull-****ting me.

 

When I was in school some kids shot the windows in one of our classrooms with a pellet gun and the holes looked exactly like the one in the picture. Small hole on the outside with blowout on the inside. 100% that pellet came from the outside.

Thank you for your expertise. I appreciate it.

 

Hi to you all,

I am so happy i found this site when i did because i was freaking out when the cops told me the shot was fired from the inside.

Thank God for the internet. Let's keep it FREE by not supporting SOPA and PIPA. Don't know that that is, google it.

Robbie d

 

Land lord its his place to repair the window. doesn't matter where the shot came from really but if he was to try to stiff you then there are all types of evidence from kellys searching to prove the cops havwe their heads where the sun doesn't ever shine.

Have a great 2012

Al

Yes i agree and i am keeping this site handy for when i need it to prove it was shot from outside.