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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have this question for those who are Pro-Obama...

Why are you voting for him? Why or what of his policy's and philosophy's do you like or agree with?

I am wondering this because I am on the fence and would like to know. Right now I am leaning towards Mc Cain. Please tell me why I should drink the Kool Aid Obama is pouring.
 

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I tell ya what Chuck

If you truly want someone to take the bait.

As I am sure you are already an informed voter, who has already done his homework, visited both political camp's websites, reviewed position statements, watched the debates, and scoured all the different sites on the net... please tell me the 3 things you like about each candidate, and the 3 things you don't for each.

If you want me to reply, let's leave the gun issues off the table. We both agree that McCain is better concerning 2nd Amendment rights.

Now tell me what other issues matter to you.. what issues are putting you "on the fence" as you call it...

Then maybe I'll bite and give you some insight. If I do bother to reply, it will be as comprehensive and informative as yours. I will allow you to set the bar on how deep you want to go.

So much partisanship exists here against Obama, it would appear that instead of having a true discussion of his merits, some would rather just interject cute soundbites that won't be productive in the discussion. This thread will get sidetracked by those who can't reply in context and on target. There is so much bitterness and animosity about the Democratic candidate, that I really don't believe a point by point analysis can be done.

If that is what you truly desire.

If this degrades into sillyness, I'll just stop replying.

Ryan
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Ryan agreed I don't want this thread to resort to name calling and false statements.

And yes....lets leave the 2nd ammend. out for this discussion. I know this is an outdoors site...but we all know Rep are better than dems on gun issues. Case closed.

Here is my thing the past few weeks when talking with people and asking why they are voting for Obama all I get is he will be great for the country. When i ask why....they have no reply.

Now I know he will be a big change......black, young, dem (we had 8 years of a Rep), he is charasmatic, etc.

What of his policies and platform do people agree with and why?

That is what I want this thread to be about. Give your opinions?

Why agree with Tax cuts for Middle income families? Why tax small businesses?

Here is why I don't agree with those two....

1. Both of those contradict each other. If you tax small businesses you are taxing many middle income familes. Case in point myself. I own a small business and he wants to tax my business. That takes more money out of my pocket. But yet he does not want to tax me individual but my business.

2. Why tax cuts at all when the goverment is low on funds? I mean if you own a business why would you cut one of your revenues or forms of cash flows? (this has always bothered me with both sides!)

3. He wants more tax cuts and more socialized medical and what not. How does this work again? Less money but more Goverment aid and control?

Again if I am miss informed please enlighten me.

And one of the things I want out of this thread is people to be informed. I mean give opinions based on platforms and policies. Not that he will be a good change for the country. Or he is a poor choice because he is backed by Muslim extremist or he is not a citizen and what not.... Plat form issues and discussions.

Here is how I am a fence rider.....I honestly believe that neither canidate is good for our nation right now.
 

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Sounds fair.

I will reply later tonight if I have time. If anyone else wants to offer their thoughts, please do.

I have some work that has a deadline today. I need to get to that and get back to you with a reply later on.

Thanks Chuck

Ryan
 

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Now I know he will be a big change......black, young, dem (we had 8 years of a Rep), he is charasmatic, etc.
Excellent idea, and can we leave the above out also, and stick to issues only?

I keep thinking about the Clinton income tax credits. It's the only way I can see that Obama could give tax cuts to 95% of the people. They would not be real tax cuts of course, they would be tax increased for evidently the 5% to pay income tax credits to 40% of people who do not pay taxes. That I consider redistribution of wealth, (or spreading the wealth, also socialism) and I don't like that. More so for getting away from Capitalism that taxes because it looks like when my wife retires we would get money from you.

Next, I don't see any difference in taxing business and taxing you. If you pay taxes on your business that leaves you with less income. It doesn't make much difference how it happens, the bottom line is you will have less money to spend, less money to invest in new equipment, less money to hire another employee or two.

Ever since President Kennedy we know we have more revenue when we cut taxes. I know Obama wants to be "fair", but if he drives business bankrupt they will no longer employ people, and they will no longer pay taxes to support those who have less. It looks like cutting of your noses to spite your face.

With lost revenue their will be an even greater disparity between revenue taken in and revenue going out under his greatly expanded "entitlement" programs. The math just doesn't add up even for one with limited math skills.

I ending remember those taxes on your business. Well if your product or services do not bring in enough money to pay taxes, employees, and a living wage (profit) for your family what will you do. The only choice I see is hang it up and try find a job with someone else, or raise the price of your product or services. In the end the tax is passed on to us, or you go under. Either way Obama just gave up a moderate tax for a high tax that gained society nothing in the end. This is what I always call smoke and mirrors.

The only way I can explain all these things is that Obama must be creating class envy on purpose. Since the top five percent of income earners pay most of the taxes it would stand to reason that the vast majority of people are in the lower tax bracket already. Hoverer, by lowering taxes even more for them you secure their vote. The only way to do it is to make taking money from those who have earned it and giving it to others acceptable. It becomes acceptable if you can make the masses feel sorry for themselves and at the same time demonize the rich.

As others would say "my :2cents:

In defense of McCain I would say just contrast him with the problems I have with Obama.
 

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Why I dislike Obama and his policies:

1. Sorry guys, 2nd amendment is a big deal no matter how trivial you think it is, this is a standard flanking manuver by the left to throw it out of the conversation.
2. He is for bigger gov't and more programs when we need less.
3. He wants to increase taxes, which has been proven to kill the economy many times over in our past.
4. He has extremely questionable associations in his past, which go to show the character of an individual.
5. He wants to socialize health care.
6. He like government running things instead of regulating.
7. I can't stand by anyone who thinks redistributing the wealth is a good thing.
8. He flip flops on issues like the wind changes in South Dakota which ever way the polls go, he goes, drill, don't drill, drill, etc.
9. He has never been in a leadership position ever.
10. He hasn't opened up at all about his past and keeps dodging the questions, it's not just a line when they say he is the least known about presidential candidate ever.
11. He is a socialist.
12. His foreign policy experience just plain sucks, no matter whom is around him.
13. He will make damaging selections to the supreme court. I believe the constitution is not to be interpretted, and judges are to rule on laws, not legislate from the bench.

What I like about McCain.

1. He has always been for gov't regulation and oversight.
2. He is a proven leader, from vietnam, the military, and in congress, not afraid to buck his own party.
3. Very pro 2nd amendment.
4. He is for reducing spending and programs to go hand in hand with any tax reductions.
5. I believe him to be a more honest and honorable man.
6. Better military and foreign policy experience.
7. The opposite of all of the above.

Dislikes on McCain

1. I believe he wants to go to far with pushing everything back on the states, some of which is needed, but not totally.
2. He seems to be afraid to quote "go for the oppurtunity" when it has seemed to be in front of him on the campaign.
3. He has crossed the isle on issues that I do not agree with.
4. Weak on illegal immigration.

On a side note, the debates were pretty worthless this year, just an extension of the basic campaign blah blah blah crap. I had high hopes for the town meeting one that there may be some actual good questions, but the moderator killed that one too.
 

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I'm out.

Sorry Chuck. I won't get baited into this.

You had asked people who supported Obama on some level to explain why. However we already have folks who do not represent that group, who want to interject their opinions on the issue. You said:

Chuck Smith said:
I have this question for those who are Pro-Obama...

Why are you voting for him? Why or what of his policy's and philosophy's do you like or agree with?
As I stated earlier, I would have zero tolerance for those wanting to divert the focus of your question.
 

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I stuck to the subject that everyone agreed on Ryan. What are your thoughts? I'll bud out if you and Chuck want to talk about this alone.
 

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Ryan quoted:
You had asked people who supported Obama on some level to explain why. However we already have folks who do not represent that group, who want to interject their opinions on the issue. You said:

Chuck Smith wrote:
I have this question for those who are Pro-Obama...

Why are you voting for him? Why or what of his policy's and philosophy's do you like or agree with?
Wow! I knew Ryan considered this HIS personal forum, but I sure never thought I would see him print a demand for it!

I thought if you wanted one-sided discussions you used the PM format. :eek:

I'm watching this because I feel exactly the same as Chuck and have been asking exactly the same questions of every Obama supporter I come into contact with......and I'm still waiting for answers.
 

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I have this question for those who are Pro-Obama...
Oooops. Your right. Go for it.
 

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Csquared said:
Ryan quoted:
You had asked people who supported Obama on some level to explain why. However we already have folks who do not represent that group, who want to interject their opinions on the issue. You said:

Chuck Smith wrote:
I have this question for those who are Pro-Obama...

Why are you voting for him? Why or what of his policy's and philosophy's do you like or agree with?
Wow! I knew Ryan considered this HIS personal forum, but I sure never thought I would see him print a demand for it!

I thought if you wanted one-sided discussions you used the PM format. :eek:

I'm watching this because I feel exactly the same as Chuck and have been asking exactly the same questions of every Obama supporter I come into contact with......and I'm still waiting for answers.
Sorry Dan you have a failure to read and comprehend when things are written clearly.

No this isn't my forum. I never said it was. In fact I asked other Obama leaning folks to chime in too...

You are a selective reader when it suits your interests.

If I get time this weekend I might reply provided that this is a conversation for Chuck. However as we have seen here, others get offended when they want to chime in with the same repeated rhetoric we've already heard from them.

That is why I see this is futile. But I was willing to discuss with Chuck, provided the rest were only watching from the sidelines.

We'll see... I have to go get my wife's brakes fixed now before she gets into an accident. I'll see if I can get back here this weekend.

Ryan
 

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Csquared said:
Just trade vehicles with her for a few weeks.

I'm sure the brakes will be fine! :lol:
:lol:

She is the conservative leaning one in the family.. we are like Carville and Matalin in our beliefs.. but we come together alot too...

Yes.. i think if the brakes failed on me.. one less liberal in the world...

now if only I were liberal :eek:

too funny

take care
 

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Ryan, I know I don't cut you any slack, and I don't look for that to change anytime soon, but since I base my entire existence on credibility I must give credit where credit is due.

So I gotta give you a :beer: for getting the joke!

....or was it :wink:

PS...if you also look like Carville, please pass on my regrets to your wife. I'm sure that's what they mean by 3 strikes and you're out!

And tell her if she realizes she really wants a rugged, like-minded man to whisk her away.....I'm available!
 
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Today on my way to lunch I passed a homeless guy with a sign that read 'Vote Obama, I need the money.' I laughed.

Once in the restaurant my server had on a 'Obama 08' tie, again I laughed as he had given away his political preference--just imagine the coincidence.

When the bill came I decided not to tip the server and explained to him that I was exploring the Obama redistribution of wealth concept. He stood there in disbelief while I told him that I was going to redistribute his tip to someone who I deemed more in need--the homeless guy outside. The server angrily stormed from my sight.

I went outside, gave the homeless guy $10 and told him to thank the server inside as I've decided he could use the money more. The homeless guy was grateful.

At the end of my rather unscientific redistribution experiment I realized the homeless guy was grateful for the money he did not earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I gave away the money he did earn even though the actual recipient deserved money more.

I guess redistribution of wealth is an easier thing to swallow in concept than in practical application.
 

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Lets let this one ride and see what Obama supporters have to say. I am interested in Ryan's response. I failed to pay attention to Chucks first request that Obama supporters respond. OK Ryan the show is yours.

I certainly hope that after a few days no one minds that we make comments. After all we can't let something way off base just ride. :D I'm sure no one will disagree with that will they?
 

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Why I am voting for Obama,simple I am a American eighty three years old,veteran of two wars and see no need to explain to anyone why or who I support. This is the second financial meltdown that I will be experiencing. The same people that caused the first one are responsible for this one. Corporate GREED.
 

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Terminal stupidity, yes that's right the kind that can kill life as we know it. Two men who want to be the most powerful man in the world and they have yet to figure out that they cannot change it all with words and promises. The scope is too big to make radical changes without upsetting the already bad balance we have. We need a possible 2 term President who will start out small. ( Maybe by closing our borders while we sort it out and moving on to keeping them closed once its fixed)
I still believe it is fixable, but not in the next four years.
 
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