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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So where do you guys see NODAK being in 5-10 years as far as access and compared to other states. I am kinda getting bumed about the lack of access farmers seem to be giving. I would say any givin night if I find three fields holding birds I will be gauranteed to be turned down twice. Do you guys see NODAK as being the best in the MIDWEST or leases and outfitters locking things up? Heres another, if you owned land would you let people in?

On a side note, I was scouting tonight and watched as a father and sun sat in a field next to a water hole and shot doves. Made me stop and think about this and I wondered where we would be without the next generation.
 

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Blake:

Enjoy it now. My best advice, make an effort to start a journal and chronicle your hunts and take as many photos as you can. You are witnessing the front end decline of freelance hunting in North Dakota.
 

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It depends, will we ave the intestinal fortitude to do what needs to be done and finish in ND the protections my home state tried to do there? Referall to limit my right to sell access to a reseller,aka G/O.IMHO
 

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I have a question about this, actually two.

1 What defintion do you guys use so that you can be called "freelancers"?

2 What exactly are you losing that will make NoDak like the rest of the states?

3 Which states are you talking about?

If someone could answer me these two questions it would help me. Thanks.

IAHunter
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I am referring to the fact that any giving day I am able to drive around and hunt anywhere I want. That 7 times out of 10 I can. Other states would include Texas, Illinois, Arkansas where it costs $$ to buy a lease or hire a guide! A "freelancer" is someone who asks for permission to hunt and then moves to a new area, asking for permission again...its a process. Do you understand? NODAK is not like these "other" states..YET
 

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IAHUNTER, in response to question 2: we do not intend to end up like other states that were ONCE known for good hunting.

This report warns that Arkansas' booming duck-hunting business could bust state's flock unless pressure is relieved.
BY TREY REID ARKANSAS DEMOCRAT-GAZETTE

"Arkansas gained a reputation as one of the best duck-hunting spots in the country. (early 1900's) Duck hunters have been coming to Arkansas ever since, and these days they're coming in numbers like never before. That could be a problem, according to a report compiled by the Arkansas Wildlife Federation, a nonprofit conservation group founded in 1936.
In the wake of two consecutive seasons of lackluster duck hunting in
Arkansas, the federation embarked on a mission to find causes of the
declining success. The result was a report titled "Improving the Quality of Duck Hunting
in Arkansas," which the federation released last week. One of the report's primary conclusions was that hunting pressure has
played a big part in recent downturns in hunting success. "We wished to be the Duck Capital of the World," the report states,"and we got it."
In an effort to ease the pressure and presumably improve the quality of
hunting, the federation report calls for the state Game and Fish
Commission to impose duck hunting regulations that are more restrictive than those allowed by federal guidelines for setting seasons.
The report recommends the following actions:
Shorten season length to about 53 days and include two sevenday splits
of closed hunting. (Federal law allows Arkansas to have a 60-day season.) Reduce the daily bag limit to five ducks, including three mallards,only one of which may be a hen. (Federal law permits a daily limit of six ducks, including four mallards, two of which may be hens.) Prohibit spinning-wing decoys. (Federal law and Arkansas regulations
allow the use of spinningwing decoys, although some states have banned
them.) Prohibit hunting on all federal and state sanctuaries and rest areas. (Last year, the Game and Fish Commission opened some state rest areas to limited hunting.) Limit the number of hunters, "particularly nonresidents," on publichunting areas through the use of a permit system. (Most wildlife management areas in the Game and Fish Commission's inventory are open to all resident and nonresident hunters.)
Limit hunters to morning-only hunting on public and private land in
certain regions. (Duck hunting is allowed from 30 minutes before sunrise
until sunset statewide, but state law restricts hunting on most wildlife
management areas to morning-only hunting.)
Dr. Ducote Haynes of Little Rock, chairman of the federation's duck
committee, will present the report's findings and urge the Game and Fish
Commission to adopt the recommendations when the commission holds its monthly meeting on Thursday.
"The primary responsibility of the Arkansas Game and Fish Commission is to protect the wildlife and resources of this state so Arkansans, our kids and grandkids can enjoy the resource," Haynes said.
The Game and Fish Commission will vote on duck hunting regulations for the 2003-2004 season at Thursday's meeting. It doesn't appear likely the commission will adopt any of the federation's recommendations for the coming season. "I think they're right about some of these things," Commissioner Mike Freeze of England said. "But it's got to be more than Arkansas. The reduction in days needs to come at the national level." Historically, it's rare for the commission to impose hunting
regulations that are more restrictive than what is allowed by federal law. Last year the commission reduced the daily bag limit to five ducks from the federal maximum of six. It was believed to be the first time the commission had been more restrictive than federal frameworks since the modern commission came into existence with the passage of Amendment 35 in 1944. While last year's bag limit reduction was received well by most hunters, commissioners said further restrictions likely won't get the same reception.
"Nobody's going to complain too much about getting 50 days," Freeze
said. "But they'll scream bloody murder if all the other states have 60." That doesn't mean the commission won't consider some of the
federation's recommendations in the future.
"Some of that stuff we might address as a state," Freeze said. Any adoption of the federation's recommendations likely would be tied
to the willingness of other Mississippi Flyway states to follow suit.
"I think you'll see some changes," Commissioner Sheffield Nelson of
Little Rock said. "If we could get other states to address these issues, I
think you'd see that we would be one of the states at the forefront.
"Somebody has to take the initiative to present it. I'd like to see the
commission take the lead, contact the states around us and the Flyway
Council. It's very possible we could effect some change."
Haynes, chairman of the federation's duck committee, said that would be a good starting point. "If we could influence the commission to just think about it a little bit, we'd be one step closer to solving some of our problems," Haynes said.
Most waterfowlers agree that Arkansas duck hunting has declined over
the past two years. But getting them to agree on the cause is entirely another matter. Some hunters blame natural factors such as droughts on the northern breeding grounds and unseasonably warm weather during the fall and winter migration. Others point fingers at improved habitat conditions in states to the north of Arkansas.
The theories have a couple of things in common: Each likely has some
effect on the success of duck hunters in Arkansas, and none are within the control of those hunters. But hunting pressure is different, the federation says. "That's something we have some control over," Haynes said. Few dispute that hunting pressure is increasing. Sales of Arkansas duck stamps have increased from about 38,000 in 1989 to an all-time high of nearly 95,000 in 2001.> Not only are the number of hunters increasing, but those hunters are going afield more days than in the past. Between 1991 and 1996, hunters in Arkansas averaged about 414,000 days a year in the field. From 1996 to 2000, the number of days averaged more than 780,000 a year. The average number of
hunting days per hunter increased from about 11 to more than 14 during the same 10-year period.
Hunters in Arkansas never killed more than 1 million ducks before 1995. Since then the number of ducks killed in Arkansas hasn't fallen below 1 million. "We have more hunters, and they're hunting more days," said Ducks Unlimited biologist Mike Checkett, the former waterfowl program coordinator for the Game and Fish Commission. "The pressure is causing ducks to behave differently. I think we're driving birds to spend more time sitting somewhere else, and it's affecting individual hunter success.>
"The only way we can control pressure is the number of days, the number
> of hours per day and the number of hunters."
> But imposing additional restrictions on hunters means limiting opportunity. It makes management decisions a balancing act for the state's decision-makers.
"We're trying to do what's best for the resource, and we're also trying
to provide opportunity for sportsmen," Freeze said. "And sometimes
balancing those two things is hard to do."
A solution offered by the federation is to limit the number of
nonresident hunters who are allowed to hunt on public hunting areas in
Arkansas.
> Again, it's a ticklish proposition. Duck hunting has become important to the state's economy. Stuttgart estimates that duck hunting injects $1 million a day into that city's economy alone.
"We don't want to send the wrong message to out-of-state hunters,"
Nelson said. "But there may come a day when we aren't left any other choice than to limit the number of hunters. "If stamp sales continue to increase, I don't think we'll hesitate to take other steps, and one step might be permit-hunting on our wildlife management areas."

About the report

The report, which is about 60 pages, is available free from the Arkansas
Wildlife Federation. Information on obtaining the report is available by
calling (501) 224-9200 or 1-877-945-2543.
"I applaud their efforts in putting this report together," Nelson said.
"I hope every duck hunter in the state reads it."
 

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I have this report and would be willing to share it with anyone intersted in it. I have not posted it because of lenght. Send me a PM as it is very interesting reading.
 

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Ron, I know you and tosdak are both interested in farm issues as they relate to hunting. Friday a 160 acre property was auctioned off in Barnes County for $525 an acre. This same piece had been listed previously as farmland and did not sell because of the poor soil type and cattail sloughs that cover it. It was now listed as "great hunting property!" and sold right away to 10 fellows for a hunting club.

Interestingly enough this price is going to be used by land appraisers to set values for surrounding farmland, raising the price to existing farmers who wish to purchase real cropland and then have to pay for it with the farm commidities that land will produce. Good luck to them. Is this where NODAK will be in 10 years?

Farmers have a clear stake in supporting access issues along with hunters. Both should be natural allies.
 

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Having talked with many farmersm across the state this past week at Big Iron while working our booth this point was brought to m attention many times. i have spoken and posted on this issue many times in the past and it is a common area to start rebuilding the bridge that FB and G/O have blown up for us these past few years.

Many farmers and ranchers read these postings as was evident by them asking me if I was the same person that posts here. Ironiclly even though we disagreed on some other issues all agreed that action needs to be taken to stem the tide of the escalating tax base that the above actions are causing. This is a area of common good that needs to be solidified before the next session.

As one rancher from south of Dickison said to me if I wanted Nd to be like TX I would be raising Longhorns instead of Angus.
 

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Interesting. i too hear of these situations way to often, and I have no real blinking idea what to do about it. I get many calls from guys saying there is a nice piece of land in Griggs county for sale, I dont have time to come see it. What can I expect to find to hunt on it. First off I would like to know if these were residents or non who purchased it. If it is residents, it is tough to argue with guys who are willing to put their money where there mouths are. But this land should be taxed at a recreational property rate, and should not be used by appraiser to set the value of agricultural lands. I think one of the greatest things this country could do would be to try and put the ownership of land back into the hands of the people who live and work on it. Tazation is one way that can happen. Live in a rural setting within 10 miles of your land, get a tax break, otherwise, tax it as an investment. Just a thought, should be in the other thread to.
 

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don't be too quick to see raising realestate taxes for anyone. Come up with a formula that values land based on the income it produces. Swamp
and other good wildlife habitat should be low taxes unless its leased for an income. All our taxes in this country are crushing our economy we have the highest tax rates of any capitalist country on this earth. If this country went to a consumtion tax you would have to hide in a swamp to not have a job. even in North Dakota.
 

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Sorry thats supposed to read "consumption" Tax
 

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Where will ND be in 10 years...... several of the people we have talked to are putting together accounts to either lease or buy depending on what happens during the season and how the Gov's summit goes. So to answer the question, it seems there will be alot more land owners who are non-resident. The people who can afford to buy up land are the same people who can afford to travel out of state or country. To insure a hunting heritage some will spend whatever it takes, it does'nt matter if it's in MN, ND, IA or Wisc, as long as the travel is managable. The people of ND are not the only ones who want to ensure hunting for their kids, the problem for ND is that what they did this year has geared up the "money" and it is coming.....soon!
 

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JMS, you are dead on. That's why some capping, along with g/o restrictions and public lands, must be part of the long-term solution. Because there will always be an ever-growing number of folks who first become interested in ND and who have the ability/desire to secure exclusivity, the free-for-all will eventually trend to heavy exclusivity over most of the best ground and result in even greater mayhem and very poor quality on the balance. Even those who jumped on the pay-access bandwagon early will soon find themselves out-bidded. That's the inevitible next phase of the commercialization process we're in so far. But, if there's no guarantee of a license each year........
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I like your guys points. The next step should be, "What can I do?" What are your guys thoughts on how to preserve today for tommorrow?
 

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:eyeroll:

Whelp, It's private land. The owners to buy or sell. Either buy your own piece, or get together and give the owner a better offer to let you use it.

That, or go cry when somebody else has it and doesn't want you to use it.

It's the American way. Oh, and especially don't try and take my rights without compensating me. Or you'll pay in court.

Crabby
 

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Well you probably think I sound like a broken record, large amounts of public land publiclan public land public land....... It is the only true insurance to keep hunting available to all. This isn't a theory either, its fact and all you have to do is compare states with public land to those that don't. In all the states out east its public land or pay thru the nose and Ron is right the bidding will continue to rise until all of you are out of it. People in North Dakota don't have a clue what some people out east will pay to hunt. I don't care how unpopular it is with the tax man or any other politician its your only hope. You cannot descriminate legally and tell people that they can't hunt their own land, caps and liscenses restrictions won't hold water on private land. Its unconstitutional and will not be held up in court. And the wealthy that can afford to spend thousands on hunting lands for recreation have the money, will and lawyers to prove that point.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
So how much does it cost to buy a lease in Ark, Georgia, or other states? I really have know idea. How do young people down south hunt? Just curious... :(
 
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