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I see the nonresidents come out of the woodwork when there is any type of regulation that may have some effect on their hunting time. But when it is time to go to Bismark to the commette hearings are they there? No! Are they writing letters to the legislature to tell them that the G/O s are taking over the hunting in ND ? Very little. What are you guys doing to help the situation? If the nonresident hunter would join the concerned residents and help them there may be a chance to turn the tide. Rem 700, PH, J Molson and anyone else post the letters that you sent to NDGF and to the Gov last session. Lets see the work you put into controling the GO takeover. Tell me which guy you were testifing before the house commette. I will remember you when you mention what your presentation covered. How about you people mounting a letter writing campaign to the governors office explaining that the commercialization is destroying the hunting opportunities for residents and nonresidents alike. Rem 700 you take the leed. In your last post you said this was the problem. Do something positive instead of belittling the efforts of the sportsmen of this state. I repeat show me what you have done to correct any of the problems that you refer to.
 

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Old Hunter,

You are correct, we should do more to support this issue. One exception is that this effort needs to be led/coordinated by a resident. You don't want a bunch of NRs telling residents how to run their state!
 

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Get your names on the E-tree on this site. Keep informed. Seems the same thing as last year is happening...the NR's with answers are coming out of the woodwork in droves now that the hunting seasons are upon us. Keep up the ideas and start helping year round.
 

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What ? Is there an echo in here. I posted up similiar points just last week. E-tree is an awesome idea but there needs to be more than just that.

Still waiting for Dick M or whoever to tell me how us NR's will be incorporated into the plan or an anorganization or whatever. Like I said before, lots of us coming up I-94 in 5 weeks. Might be a good time to grab our ear or our $$ via dues, etc.

f
 

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Old Hunter, you better make up your mind what you want from NR's, you guys blame them for all the "over crowding" and let laws get passed to restrict people, then complain that the people that you just alienated aren't doing enough to help ND . All you had to do was look to the south and see an example of how not to do it, or look to the east and see how not to do it, right under your nose all along. The Cando and Devils lake aeas have had expanding G/O for as long as I can remember, but it didn't effect you, until now? If help is what ND residents want from NR's, then ask for it, there are people who have the means to help, too bad you had to piss everyone off first.
 

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Many of us have asked for sometime (for NR's to HELP) - & knew it was a good way to go - BUT there will be some restrictions that are needed that you won't like & will focus on - (all the while the G/O's are doing all they can to keep you & us all pizzed at each other) & then SPIN things to make it look like they have the answers :******:

Most of you have been played for fools (right into their agendas) especially former residents that have left - (NOT ALL -there are many here that have been supportive for along time) Thank You !!!

We all need to enlighten ND small towns about who is who -

BUT - I'm sorry, Residents should be special - & we cannot have unlimited #'s of hunters - all coming when they feel like it & where they feel like :eyeroll:

I have always said ND can Handle alot more than we get - But they have to be spread out & come in intervals thru out the entire season.

I wish there could be a exception to Native born NoDakers & Landowners - cause this really pizzes off small towns & landowners (???) So relations can be healed & forces & energy can be focused in & on the right things.

Other than this & what has already occured - I have no problem with NR's - some of my best hunting friends are from out of State - always have been & I hate to see them mad & left out - But something has to be done.

What we need is a Legislator to lead all of us (Freelance Hunters) to step forward & spearhead the Legislation we need.

Plus elect the right people that understand all this.

Get appointments to the G&FD Regional Reps. that understand, not just rubber stamp things - Cause right now, the deck is stacked against us - so all we can do is ***** & complain, cause we have tried to do things tru proper channels & were for the most part ignored :eyeroll:

I have a feeling that the ace in the hole (Referral vote) will have to be used at some point ??? But it cannot be wasted, or done without solid planning to cover things in a respectful - commonsense - thoughtful way that will have lasting effects, on saving what makes ND so unique & special.

Dick & Dan are as close to the right people as any & there are many others, even on other sites. That need to come together & plan a strategy -

I have always wished this could be done online ??? The distances & time & cost to meet somehere are against us (for lots of reasons)

Maybe this is the start of a new begining & awareness ??? or another giant step towards even a bigger mess :eyeroll: :******: :-? :peace:
 

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I sent letters and emails to:
Hoeven
Hildebrand

I sent emails to:
Rostvet
The NR (that is natural resources) chairs of the ND senate and house.

I also gave a phone call to a friend that is in the ND legislature.

I can not find my letter(s), but in summary I expressed deep concern for the commercialization of wildlife via guiding and outfitters. I suggested that at a minimum ND must begin to better monitor and regulate G/Os.

I did tell them that I supported the HPC, but that I disagreed with the numbers in the model. I supported a maximum of 30K NR waterfowl hunters in the liberal years. Less NRs when duck populations were down (via pond index counts), but still more NR hunters then the original HPC model desired.

I asked that "the elimination of zones" be considered.

Dean wrote back with a nice response. Hoeven responded via a "form letter" probably via staff. Nothing back from the NR chairs or Roger.

My opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of NoDak Outdoors or Fetch. :wink:

Travel to the ND capital? Nope was never in the plans. If ND decides they do not want me anymore - I guess I will either join the caravan to Canada or spend more time in my current home state.

PH
 

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In my case I wasn't even aware of the controversy until I heard about the restrictions and started researching the internet to find out what the hell the problem was. If you guys have been wrestling with this issue for so long why didn't it dawn on you to attempt to get a list of the out of state hunters addresses and send a letter to them. I'm still trying to get up to speed on all the nuances of the issues.
Step 1) organize and decide what we want to accomplish write it down and put it out on this web site for comment and refinement.
Step 2) Find out if the list of all the non-res hunters addresses is a matter of public record and if it is then send them a letter explaining the issues or directing them to a web site where they could be informed.

Step3) If the list is not available then why not post a letter or some type of notice on the doors of sypathetic businesses ( sporting goods stores, bars ect) where hunters frequent these businesses want out of staters money. Get them to help spread the word about what you want to accomplish. They could throw a little sheet of paper explaining this issue in the bags with the shotshells shells we buy from them.

Step 4) Quit throwing stones at each other and start pulling together. Up till now the only people that know about this issue are giving each other a bunch of lip on this web site and that isn't accomplishing anything is it?
 

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Step3) If the list is not available then why not post a letter or some type of notice on the doors of sypathetic businesses ( sporting goods stores, bars ect) where hunters frequent these businesses want out of staters money. Get them to help spread the word about what you want to accomplish. They could throw a little sheet of paper explaining this issue in the bags with the shotshells shells we buy from them.
Bob if you have time & want to get a feel - you can go back & read alot here on the issues - (Past topics)

Just saying "those that want Out of State Hunters Money " Is a Big part of the problem - Most NR's donot really understand or only are thinking of themselves & blame & accuse us of the same. & most ND businesses & Farmers don't really understand all this either - That could only make it worse.

I agree & have been preaching for along time. It is the Freelancers that spend by far the most money in ND (a term that we took) - but even that has got twisted around - trying to make us look like selfish, only wanting Free access & against NR's) - That is not the case - There are so many factions in all this, from Farmers to small town businesses - to Farm Groups - to G/O's - to Politicians to our G&FD (which were censored) & our G&F Director (who is just going with the flo) - for fear of having the Govenor retaliate against him - (He has to answer to our Govenor) - The Dept. knows the problems & in General agrees with us - But most of their ideas & proposals have been so twisted around, to look Bad, that they are now Gun shy to do much more. (& they like all the revenue too) :roll: There are Landsrights wackos that are jumping on the band wagon trying to get rid of our unique Laws that have made ND special. & in General we all know no Landowner likes to be told what they can & can't do. So much land is now rented & many of these renters don't want the hassles from all this - Or want to try & make extra money from it.

We have suggested ways to Make ND even better for small towns economically by making things better for Freelancers - But to be honset the Legislature & Govenor don't (until recently) get all this either :eyeroll: & how NR's have preceived things & Lobbied has been more of a mess than a positive.

Our Tourism Dept has over sold ND Outdoors as Economic development & not had a clue to the affects & the G/ O's have capitalized on all they can.

Our Hospitality Groups (& alot of Businesses) are just interested in $$$ and don't really understand the iisues.

Yeah combine that with the retoric we display at times & sarcasim & cynicism & whalla here we are today - still going over the same things (going in circles)

There is a group (Sportsmans Alliance) that has come along ways & is now on a better track to solving many of our concerns - But they made some mistakes two years ago & many of the above groups only think they are out to protect their own regional interests. (& if you ask me the zones we ended up with reflect - who got their way ???)

I think your Right that someone needs to write out the facts & all of us need to pass out the real issues & problems & potential solutions & pass them out to every hunter - Farmer - Landowner - Business - Politician - Etc Etc Etc. & try to get on the same page on alot of this - Before it is too Late - Waiting for the Next Legislative session :roll: seems like a futile expectation in positive change - because most are looking at things from their own personal wants & needs - But you & others are right to try & take advantage of the awareness now & try to get all Freelancers to spread the word - this year, as these issues are making News & simmering & being scrambled even more :eyeroll:

I'm afraid most are just trying secure their own little niche & not worry about the overall problems. Or look for ways to survive & be able to hunt. I get so disgusted - I realize things will never be the same - I sometimes wonder if I, or my Kids or Grandkids will hunt (or even want to hunt) forever & that makes me really sad. I used to think it does not have to be like this. ND could be different & do unique things to manage all this. But to be honest - I don't know anymore if all this can have a happy ending.

I'm glad you can even see some of our concerns from a far. & so many others do too. But fighting change & commercialism & $$$ & Indifferance is not FUN or has it been overly rewarding.

I know I tend to be sarcastic & cynical & like to take the light - (Joking side of things ) Many hate that or don't understand it. So I have tried to just be more honest & tell it like I see it. & so have many others. This has caused many of us that basically agree, to even be jealous, or negative towards each other. & I feel bad about that. But at the same time - I have a Motto that was given to me along time ago on another site

(BEWARE - Caution !!! this link is Rated R & not part of this web site or is not in disrespect to anyone - unless they need it ) http://www.arkansaswaterfowler.com/fetchmotto.html

& believe me there are a few here that need it :roll: :wink: :******: :-?

But You can't solve problems for people who donot want their problems solved. Especially when so many keep adding to the problems. :eyeroll: In the end like most things today $$$ will win out - That is not what is best for the majority & typically not what most NoDakers have ever been about.

I can only pray we find solutions instead of just becoming like so many other States. Sometimes I think Yeah! Maybe things / attitudes are changing & the truth will win out in the end.

But a few dozen or even a few hundred can't be the only ones doing the most, to try & make it happen (Burnout comes into play) (& I'm not saying I think I am one of those - In fact I was told I was part of the problem & many wish I was on the other side) :( (???)

I really do still think, if most people would think things thru & try to see the bigger picture, of each indivdual move, or the progression, of what has occured, it still could happen. Then most will agree we are (were) the best hope of keeping hunting as we know it alive (quality & affordable to most people)
 

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I just registered my email address - again. I am VERY glad to read that there are some that realize tradions are in very real danger of being lost forever. There are MANY good and great people in ND and I hope they stay that way!

Thank you for the opportunity(ies)!
 

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(I posted this first in the tribune article post but I thought it was such a good idea I though I should post it here also. I edited it a little bit so it makes more sense.) An Upper midwest hunt fish stamp sounds like a good idea to me. Only if all proceeds went to the purchase of permanent hunting lands, even more cost effective would be a permanent( I mean forever no loop holes) lease to the state as a Plots type land. It could make the stamp dollars go alot farther and give a lot of farmers a shot of money they could use. I would even go so far as to make the money irresitable to the farming communtiy by making it non- taxable. The answers are going to have to be more access not limiting hunter numbers if you try the limit hunters route its going to end up a rich elite sport because you cannot compete with the forces of supply and demand. IF the monies were used in Minn. Wisconsin, Iowa ect for Plots type permanent leasese that would take a lot of pressure off of the Dakotas. I really like the idea because we hunters could establish a lot more accessible land on a one time payment permanent hunting lease basis than we could buying land and we don't really want to own the land just hunt it. I think very few farmers could resist the temptation to "sell" their farm for .25 on the dollar taxfree when they actually get to keep the land. It could be big money for them and a lot of land access secured for us. If we had a stamp like this that was say a 100.00 for every liscense holder over 21 years old in every state in the midwest it would be one hell of an account quick. Comments???
 

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Fetch : after writing the last post ==> the finger tips must be bleeding, knuckles white and hurting, and the sweat dripping from your brow is drowning out the key board. :wink:
 

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Bob Wi has a similar program that does this. The major draw back is that if it is left in crop rotation they allowed a buffer area to be posted to prevent damage to the fields from hunters traveling through them and wildlife beong jumped and casueing damage in there escape attempt.

What happened and rules to elimate this would be needed was that the crops where left standing or a portion of them at least which shut out the public from most of the acres, but still allowing the operator or owner to sell access to this ground. Now they where not out advertising they would take money but I saw it happen over and over.

If you target only CRP then it becomes another issue s to maintence of these grounds and continual funding would be needed to make sure that the quality of cover would be maintained. Most of have seen what happens to CRP that bemoes overrun with Brome grass first snow and it is flat. If wetlands are next to this with cattails they fill in eliminating winter cover for deer and upland birds.

This is not a bad idea but planning and work with the USDA on grass types and access issues for non grass land areas's need to be researched to prevent the scaming of the resource once again.
 

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Ron, If we know the scam angles we could make them illegal from the get go. If the farmer does'nt follow the rules he would be taken out of the program and the money would be taken back as well. I know there would be some scammers but most farmers would play it straight. Its a pity how hard humans try to screw each other for no good reason. I still think its a workable idea. Maybe it would be better just to buy the land outright it would take longer to accumulate a lot of land but there wouldn't be any possibility of the scams you outline above. Roughly how much is land per acre in ND and how many liscenses are sold total?
 

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Not to shoot down ideas. There are many problems with the purchase of land. Farmers are already upset over to much land purchase. I see future legislation brought by farmers to address this issue as I think it will become a problem.
With the purchase of much ND land for recreational purposes there is a serious need for a new tax system. In many cases farmers are being out bid to the point that farming is no longer economically possible on these lands.

The problem with the recreational users paying high prices is the fact that the appraisals are based on surrounding land which drives up prices on ag land.

Some time in the future we may find that the recreational value of land is worth more than its ag value. In fact we are already sseing this in some areas. As out of state hunters and in state hunters as well, are willing to pay more for the recreation than farmers can pay due to current crop and livestock values.

If land is purchased. Who pays the taxes? Is the influx of hunter $ enough to offset the loss in taxes to the state if it is a govt based buyer.

Who regulates this?

Just some questions that need to be answered.
 

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The one thing that we have to do is stay together while Pawlenty and Hoeven are meeting. I don't think Pawlenty realizes how sleazy Hoeven is with the hunting issues. I would bet money that Hoeven is going to try and pull something after the meeting with Pawlenty.
 
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