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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Range Report: (third reloading) for new .223 Rem. Deer Load…..August08
Increased to 25.6 grs; Hodgdon Varget.

65gr Sierra # 1395 / Varget 25.6 grs. / CCI 400 / R-P brass / OAL:2.250"
Velocity: 2902fps (average)(Chronographed)

No pressure signs; Primers still rounded, chambered well, ejected well.
Shells Catcher used.

100yds; 2-3 inchs. Off the bench w/ back pack rest.

Rifle: High Standard AR15 Model HSTX6551 Flat Top Carbine.
Cartridge: 5.56mm NATO / .223 Remington Cartridge.
Barrel/Chamber: 16 inches long, marked "5.56 NATO 1 - 9"
Sights/Scope: Burris Short Mag 3-9 power, Ballistic Plex
Scope Rings: Warne 1" Maxima Quick Detachable (Weaver/Picatinny).
Trigger: Timney Trigger, AR-15 Item #664-S, Small Pin .154, 4 Lbs. Pull.
(skeletonized trigger).
Black Bag Shell Catcher attached (Velcro/rod frame assembly fastened to hand guard).

Thank you for reading my on Range Report.
 

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"you don't have much energy left over 100 yards with that bullet weight and velocity."
That was my first thought also. So, I ran the stats through a ballistic computer and that bullet still has 950 ft.lbs at 100 yards, more than many .44 mag. loads at the muzzle.
It's such a small bullet, though. It'd be illegal in my state as would the rifle (no semi-auto hunting rifles allowed in PA).
Pete
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Talked with Sierra Bullets (1 888 223 3006) today to find out what the
Minimum and Maximum load for Varget is for the 22 cal (.224 dia) Sierra
65gr SPBT GameKing #1395 (7"-10" twist barrel only).

The gentleman I talked to said use the same data for the 63gr.
Reason: the weight of (63gr) and the small bearing surface (65gr) have give
and take relationship there.
(I told him there was no data for Varget, p 220 in the new Sierra manual)

.223 Rem, Reloading Data:
22 cal (.224) Sierra 65gr SPBT GameKing #1395 (7"-10" twist barrel only)
Powder: Varget (Hodgdon Powders)
Charge: Min Charge: 22.8, 2600fps / Max Charge: 26.3, 3100fps.

Thank you, for reading my research.
 

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Comparing a rifle cartridge to a pistol cartridge isn't fair or anywhere near the same playing field. They are two different creatures. By the way, I would select any 44 magnum over any 22 caliber center fire cartridge for deer hunting.

One more grain of powder isn't going to get you anything, better try to see why your accuracy is like a shotgun. Varmint cartridges like the 223 Remington is more than capable of 1/2 MOA accuracy without even trying hard. Hopefully you are working up the loads before jumping to the max load. Faster doesn't automatically mean better, especially in ammunition reloading. I wouldn't use load data from a lighter bullet and use it with a heavier bullet, dangerous practice.

I took a look at the powder (Hodgdon) manufacture for Varget and its min load is 24.5 and max load is 26.4 using Sierra 1370 Varminter 63 Grain semi-pointed bullet @ 3199 FPS this is with a 24 inch barrel off their website listed below.
http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

I do wish you luck on your hunts and please be safe.

yooper77
 

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yooper77 said:
Maxed out load!

Why the 223 Remington for deer?

You don�t have much energy left over 100 yards with that bullet weight and velocity.

yooper77
You have no idea what you are talking about. I have been using this round at 3000fps on deer for years. This round carries 500ft/lbs @ 400yds. Every deer I have ever hit has dropped where it stood.
 

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iwantabuggy said:
Doesn't seem like the accuracy is very good either. I'd definitely try something else.
I have been loading this same load for years. I get 1/2 moa with the 65gr gameking out to 500yds out of my AR-15. It carries 500ft/lbs at 400yds. More than enough for any deer at any range less than that.
 

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I worked up a load for my 16" Bushmaster with the 65gr. Sierra Gameking Spitzer Boat Tails this fall. I am using H-4895 Powder and in the end my most accurate charge weight was the starting load. My Bushmaster is producing 1" 5 shot groups at 100 yards off the bench with this bullet.

The load I normally use in this Bushmaster is 55gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips loaded with H-4895 will generally print 1/2" groups at 100 yards from the bench.

Larry
 

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That is not too bad in the accuracy department. It is still MOD (Minute of Deer). It is a little late but next year you many want to try different powder or primers. That may make those groups get smaller. You never know your rifle may not like those bullets. Your tube may be a little slower than others. There are hundreds of reasons why you are not getting the velocity others get.

I have used Barnes 52 or 53 gr X bullets out of my 16" CAR15. They work very well on the doe here in ND. I have also been known to use 75gr HPBT match and 50gr Speer TNT. The match had very closed HP not like the newer ones I had and they all passed through. I still harvested that deer within a few feet of me. The 50gr Speer TNT were shot from a 20" 1:8 twist rifle at 3150. These shoot consistently in the .1 - .2 inch(tube is starting to go). When shooting doe off of hay piles I have yet to find a better rifle.

I normally shoot much larger rifles but it does not take a belted mag to kill today’s modern smaller deer. It also does not take a 50BMG or a 338LM but they are much more fun.

Do you know why Baskin Robbins only has 31 flavors? Because Chuck Norris doesn't like Fudge Ripple.
 

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sunshynjunky said:
iwantabuggy said:
Doesn't seem like the accuracy is very good either. I'd definitely try something else.
I have been loading this same load for years. I get 1/2 moa with the 65gr gameking out to 500yds out of my AR-15. It carries 500ft/lbs at 400yds. More than enough for any deer at any range less than that.
I didn't say it wasn't good in your gun. I said it wasn't accurate in the Norsemans gun. You got a chip on your shoulder? :eyeroll:

Just for the record, 500 ft/lbs at 400 yards isn't much. I just shot a white-tail scoring about 125-130 at 407 yards with a 300WM, 180gr bullet with over 2000 ft/lbs of energy at 400 yards. Blew the heart in half and the deer still ran more than 50 yards. You must be magic to have every deer drop in its tracks. Can you share your secret or do you use the force?
 

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I noticed about a week ago that cabelas was carrying a new load from federal loaded with barnes tsx bullets in 223 I thaught about getting buying a box and giving them a try this year for deer along with my 270
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hello 223 enthusiasts,

Say, I know the 65gr Sierra Game King (SGK) # 1395 load is not as
accurate as I’d like, but close enough for the AR15 Platform I have.

Been experimenting with a 55gr Hornady bullet load and actually using
the Lee Factory Crimp Die that came with the Lee 223 Die Set I have.

I’m actually getting better accuracy with the 55gr load. I apply just a
slightly visible crimp when working up the load. I believe the FCD gives
uniform tension on the bullet in all the cartridges loaded.

Here’s why:
I studied the chambering process of the AR15. I noticed the cartridge
when loaded into the AR platform does several things before it is ready
to fire. The bolt carrier group (BCG) hits the cartridge, as it is slammed
forward out of the magazine, hits the feed ramps (the small indention’s
just under the chamber), loaded into the chamber, and abruptly stops in
the chamber. A very violent chambering of the cartridge in the AR15
platform compared to a bolt action rifle.

A set back bullet will result with any resistance during the chambering process,
and we all know this is bad because this will dangerously increase pressure,
assuming the bullet stays back.

The bullet is then pulled forward by its own energy as it comes to an abrupt
stop as the cartridge’s shoulder hits the chamber shoulder. Now, there is no
allowance for the bullet to have space between the barrel lands and the bullet.
Since you followed reloading information to set the bullet at the proper
cartridge/bullet length (OAL), that you have worked up, with the bullet resting
against the lands this will increase pressure. Will the AR hold up, maybe, maybe not?

The kinetic bullet puller hammer uses the same principle (violently stops
the cartridge/bullet, and the bullet pops out). So you can see how the cartridge
is treated when it enters the AR chamber.

This is why I started to use the Lee Factory Crimp Die. The FCD is an
extra step only takes few more minutes once set up.

I’m going to try the FCD on my 65gr SGK # 1395 loads to see if it improves
the accuracy.

I will give a Field Report when I do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Morning Enthusiasts
Yea, Yea, Yea, I know I should have pictures of the target, but I don't.
Thought I would share my 65gr Sierra Game King (SGK) #1395 load,
Lee Factory Crimp Die experience anyway.

Well I got to the "Range" early. It was just a beautiful day, 62F, slight
over cast, and zero wind. Altitude of 4409 feet on the GPS.

Say, I got the High Standard AR (set at 9X) to punch holes into one of
the 22 Long Rifle 50 foot (8 targets) target at a 109 yards. Cold barrel
right out of the case. I was happy, this was the best group I have gotten,
the previous day showed promise, but I was more serious this day.

I contribute the accuracy to the sand bags in a day pack (I was using just a
Back Pack thrown down before, probably too soft) and the Lee Factory
Crimp Die, used on the cases earlier in the week.

Thanks for reading my Reloading Experience.

 

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The 223 bullet in a 65 gr sp bt by sierra sounds like a good choice if one plans to hunt and kill deer or antelope with a 223 rem cartridge.
Ballistics should be researched to determine its limitations. An accurate load and gun should be used.
Not my best choice but to each his own
 

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I've always been a firm believer that it is far better and humane to be over gunned than under gunned. The .308 for a reloader offers a great selection of hunting bullets. There are a lot of good calibers to chose from like a .270 or 7mm-08, but I'll stick to my old .308, largely because of the bullet selection for reloading purposes.
The only hunting I do with my .223 Savage is for varmint (coyote). I have a 1:9 twist so I can easily go with a heavier bullet. I'm currently reloading 'Swift Scirocco' 75 grain. I also benchrest a .223 with the Hornady 75 grain A-Max.
 

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sunshynjunky said:
yooper77 said:
Maxed out load!

Why the 223 Remington for deer?

You don�t have much energy left over 100 yards with that bullet weight and velocity.

yooper77
You have no idea what you are talking about. I have been using this round at 3000fps on deer for years. This round carries 500ft/lbs @ 400yds. Every deer I have ever hit has dropped where it stood.
That's funny sunshynjunky, you joined to just to post this? Oh I believe you, really I do!

The scary thing is I do know what I am talking about.

yooper77
 

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The Norseman, I started using the Lee factory crimp die after noticing the crimp on the Blackhills ammo. I could not reload anything more accurate than their 50 gr V-Max load. After I purchased the FCD my 50 gr V-Max duplicated their load. That is ten rounds under 1/2 inch out of a 20 inch bull barrel DPMS.
After lugging that thing around for six miles one coyote hunting day I traded it off for the light 16 inch. I thought I would give up a lot of accuracy, but I didn't. The only difference is rather than the 223 Remington designation I have the 5.56. I didn't know there was any difference at all until reading an article in the Shooting Times. As I understand the case dimensions are the same, but there is a chamber difference (which I don't remember) that allows for a slightly higher pressure load.
I also loaded the 65 gr SGK last summer. I have not chronographed it yet, but the accuracy was under an inch at 100 yards. Like always I used H335 in my load.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Plainsman, thank you for confirming what I saw on my target (a smaller
group) after using LEE Factory Crimp Die. I know that I'm not the only
one seeing a difference.

The High Standard AR 15 you see above is rather heavy because of the
heavy barrel. But, I like it for carry, it is nice and short.

I loaded another 10 rounds of the 65 gr Sierra Game King (I'm pretty conservative
shooter) the other day, have shot them yet.

I have not shot the 65's in the Remington Model 7 SS .223 yet. That is
only fed 50 gr Moly V Max Hornady's.

See Yeaw
 
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