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Trump Indictment...????

1726 Views 27 Replies 5 Participants Last post by  Chuck Smith, 
C
So there is not alot of info out there on this or what the indictment will be about.

Trump posted on social media earlier this week saying he expected to be "arrested" and wanted to be cuffed in back and do the "perp" walk for the camera. Then it hasn't happened (YET) and he has raised over $1.5 million in just two days.

Anyways.... a few things are swirling around on social media.

1. It has to do with the payments to Stormy Daniels and Cohen stuff.
2. If it was the Stormy stuff the statute of limitations have possibly expired and is why Bragg changed it to a felony instead of a misdemeanor.
3. The Grand Jury pushed back some meetings because it is found out that the DA isn't showing 600 or so pages of possible exculpatory evidence.
4. If it is the Stormy issue.... it has been investigated TWICE and both times the cases were "dropped" because of lack of evidence and what not.
5. This DA specifically ran for office on the fact that "HE WILL GET TRUMP".


Ok... Now here is my take on this and why things are getting pushed back:

1. The Grand Jury is finding out about this other evidence.
* Now grand jurys dont take all the evidence like a normal trial they just look to see if there is enough to bring charges on someone.

2. The reason why they are slowing it all down is because THEY ARE GOING AFTER A FORMER PRESIDENT and look how the one person down in Georgia who was the "foreman" of that grand jury looked on TV... looked like they are going after him because of a vendetta type thing. They dont want to look stupid.

3. They want to make sure they are not leaving anything out since it has been investigated TWICE and things were dropped. They want to make sure that either the new stuff is rock solid OR that it wont get thrown out before it even hits the court room. They dont want "egg" on their face.

But it is hilarious out in the social media world all the PAID operatives for Dems and Liberals are going nuts saying... WE GOT HIM... then when it didn't happen (yet) they are all back pedalling and saying how awful it is people bringing up this DA's track record of not being hard on crime and losing cases and what not. Also how some elected officials are calling for him to be barred and what not because he is ignoring evidence and things of that nature. They are screaming weaponization of the Judicial System. Which it could be especially if he doesn't at least show the Grand Jury that other evidence. Which like I stated... could or could not let Trump walk before it even sees a trial.

Anyways.... just thought i would bring people up to speed on what so far has been out there. It isn't much info but all more of speculation and wishes by many.

Only time will tell.



Microphone Tie Coat World Font
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The sudden turn of events that could derail Trump's indictment | Fox News

Yes this is from Fox News so take it with a grain of salt. But it kind of sheds light on what could possibly be going on and help make a little more sense of my ramblings above. LOL
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Many Top NYC Attorneys Loathe Trump — But Don’t Like Bragg’s Chances (yahoo.com)

This is actually a very good read. Shows the possible "strength" of the case and the weakness as well. Or i should say what they want to go after Trump and how it could succeed in court and also fail in court.
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S
They got him this time...
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Plainsman
speckline said:
They got him this time...
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We have heard that before haven't we. :ROFLMAO:
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S
Sooooo many times!
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C
Kind of funny how many are back tracking on the whole DA Bragg thing right now.

But again.... still in a wait and see.

What I kind of find funny is that they keep moving things to "increase security" and what not at buildings. Maybe it isn't for Trump supporters but for the Trump haters.... Just something to think about.
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Plainsman
Maybe it isn't for Trump supporters but for the Trump haters.... Just something to think about.
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Odds are leaning that direction. Trump supporters are in prison after police gestured them into the Whitehouse. Liberals burned and looted cities even burning public buildings and further attempted to burn police in precinct buildings and they are free.
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Trump indictment: Former president will surrender, won't consider plea deal: live updates (msn.com)

Trump did get indicted. It will be interesting what the actual charges. Since they are "under seal". So anything that is getting reported is pure speculation. Just like myself and others have speculated it has to do with the Stormy payments.

Again people need to understand "hush money" isn't illegal. Immoral yes.. .illegal NO. But it is what that money was actually intended for is the issue. Was it to "advance" his campaign or was it to shield the embarrassment from a loved one. One of them is a campaign finance issue the other isnt. It is now on the DA to prove this case BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. Which might be hard to do with things that are in this post above. Also the fact that the DA possibly is trying to switch the "crime" from a misdemeanor to felony... or something along those lines. It is kind of foggy and weird. But actually plays right into the hands of Trump for saying this is a witch hunt.

Again it is too early and we of course dont have enough info. But if he is guilty of a crime he should be punished. But like I mentioned the punishment needs to fit the crime. Just like what we saw with the J6 shaman... he got released because the punishment didn't fit the crime. The crime of campaign finance issues has happened before to elected officials and all they did was "pay a fine". Obama was even one plus other republicans and democrats.
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Plainsman
There is one certain thing, and that is the whole thing is political from a corrupt prosecutor.
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We just have to wait and see. Right now everything is pure speculation. Until we find out what the actual SEALED charges are we are really grasping at straws. Who knows it could be something totally different than what people are saying. But if it is exactly what they are saying... things will get interesting for sure.

But you are correct. What I am totally afraid of is the fact that now our judicial system that is supposed to be "BLIND" is turning or will turn into a political weapon for anyone in power. This is the start of turning into a third world corrupt country.
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Pelosi mocked over error on Trump proving 'innocence' - YouTube

This is the problem with people now. They think that you have to PROVE your Innocence. Not the other way around.

Many people are still speculating what the actual "crime" is that they are charging Trump with. It is coming out that it is "business fraud" and has to do with the way he labeled or what ever the payments or perceived payments to Stormy. He logged them as "business expenses" or something like that. Again... we will have to see exactly what the charges are. But again it will also boil down to punishment fit the crime, precedent that has been set by previous elected officials, and also business people.

Bill Barr shreds Trump indictment: 'Pathetically weak' - YouTube

Again take this last video with a grain of salt... was on Fox and Bill Barr was the interviewee. But again... just sheds some light on things as well.

But I posted on the MEME thread something along the lines of this is setting precedence of what will happen to elected officials once out of office. Can they go after Pelosi and her family? Can they go after Bill Clinton/Hillary? Can they go after OBAMA? Can they go after the Bush family? I mean many have skeletons in their closet and if the mantra is "no one is above the law?"... well start with more indictments!!! Again I dont think any of this should happen. But it could open the flood gates for sure.
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Here is something to really think about. It goes back to what I stated in the original post.

How Bragg petitioned for the perceived crimes (again all speculation) to become Felonies instead of Misdemeanors. So when the crimes took place they were or would have been filed/tried as misdemeanors.

I believe this will play a huge role in all of this. Be it one way or another. IF he is found guilty of the speculated crimes... how will they hand out a punishment? Because the crime when committed was an actual misdemeanor and is a misdemeanor is many other states. Plus also the precedent set by other political figures doing the same type of campaign finance issues or breaking of those laws. Much of which were fines levied and that is it.

So again... I honestly think this is something to watch out for. It could make all of this very interesting to watch as well.

PLUS the track record of Bragg and how he would let people PLEA down felonies to misdemeanors and let FELONS out without any bail. So again.. another thing to watch out for about this case. How will "bail" or anything like that happen.
Honestly it is playing right into the mantra of Trump kicking and screaming WITCH HUNT and what not. Also like i mentioned does this open up former presidents to possibly litigations? Or the fact that once Biden is out of office will someone go after him for any alleged crimes. It is a dangerous precedent that could be getting set. Hopefully our justice system is blind and adjudicates this as such. But it will be hard for Trump to get a fair trial or an impartial jury one way or another. Our political system is far too divided. How will they find people in the middle? I mean most of the country hates or loves Trump. Which is scary.
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Plainsman
So when the crimes took place they were or would have been filed/tried as misdemeanors.
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This better be a huge problem for them or the constitution goes out the door. If a person does something legal and a week later or ten years later they pass a law that makes it illegal they can't go back and prosecute hundreds of people from the past who did it legally.
In some states there is no statute of limitations for a felony, but they have a very short period of time for the statute of limitation for misdemeanors. I suspect the statute of limitation has run out so this corrupt prosecutor wants to change the rules.
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The statute of limitation clock stops when the perpetrator moves permanently to another state.

A misdemeanor that is commited to cover up an illegal act raises the misdemeanor to felony status. Trump is in big trouble and this is just the beginning.

Trump has no one to blame for any of this but himself and his little willie.

Or so I have been told!!
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Canuck.... Are you sure about the limitation issue?

Also they moved the campaign finance violations FROM a misdemeanor to a felony status. It isn't that he used a misdemeanor to cover up a felony. They actually moved that up. It is something that the DA Bragg BRAGGED about... and yes pun intended.

Now again we are all speculating what this has to do with. Since the indictment is under seal. I mean it could be about something to do with the "TRUMP" brand. Which again is/isn't apart of him. That is one thing debated.... like he didn't completely/legally give up control while he was president. Which was investigated. Also if people remember that was a sticky thing or took extra time do get possibly worked thru when he was running back in 2016. So again... it could be something along those lines as well. Again we are all speculating as of now.

But time will tell.

Like I have stated if he is guilty of the crimes he should be punished. But also the punishments should fit the crime and follow suit with others who did the same type of crimes and get those punishments. That is how our judicial system works. Like it or not.

But like a few memes I posted.... Does this mean they can go after Clinton now? Bill and Hilary? She got fined for paying the Steel Dossier out of campaign funds and was only FINED. Can they go after Bill for "hush money" paid to Paula Jones or others? It is a precedent that is getting set that is scary about this.

Anyways time will tell on all of this as more and more information and disinformation will come out.
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Chuck I don't know anything. I am just an idiot with a keyboard, but the legal discussion I heard yesterday on CBC radio suggested that the statute of limitations does not keep ticking if the perpetrator runs/moves away to avoid being served paper on the charges. It will be interesting to see how Trump tries to blow the whole thing up into more of a media circus than it already is. I hope there is no violence (death and destruction) as Trump predicted a week ago on his social media site.

"What kind of person can charge another person, in this case a former President of the United States, who got more votes than any sitting President in history, and leading candidate (by far!) for the Republican Party nomination, with a Crime, when it is known by all that NO Crime has been committed, & also known that potential death & destruction in such a false charge could be catastrophic for our Country?" Trump wrote.
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Canuck,

Got it you heard a discussion about it. Again I am not sure about it either. Just going by what has happened and other talking heads discussing this situation. It is true that if you do "run away" or out of a state they can come get you with extradition and what not. But limitations are limitations for them to actually "charge" you with something. I also know there is a difference between misdemeanor and felon with the actual time tables and what not. Again I am not sure exactly what those are or anything like that. Again all speculation and things to actually take into account when all of this goes down.

It will be interesting to see how Trump tries to blow the whole thing up into more of a media circus than it already is.
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Oh I agree with you 100% on this. Everyone is going to make this a three ring circus across the board. Trump wants to play the "witch hunt" game and stoke his base. The liberals are all screaming saying... "WE TOLD YOU SO" or "WE GOT HIM"... when we don't know yet until a trial happens. Then he is found guilty or not guilty.

Like I have mentioned before. If he did a crime he should be punished and by what has been set as precedent before him. But it what I mentioned is TRUE about the DA and the State changing things or "moving" the goalposts to go after Trump specifically.... then it is a dark time and it is purely political. It is setting a new precedent and that could be scary and the decline of the USA's Judicial system. It will show that political parties will go after and arrest their opponents. So whom ever is in power could possibly keep doing this. Which is third world BS.

But again.... we need to know exactly what the charges are and what not. Because all we got now is pure speculation and talking heads all doing what they do best... .misinformation for everyone. I mean we look at we are talking about and all sides are not in agreement on the whole limitations issue because of the changes made. This will be one big circus for sure.
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Former president Donald Trump pleads not guilty to 34 felony counts (msn.com)

This is actually a good read and helps (A LITTLE) to shift thru the crap.

The charges — falsifying business records in the first degree — were announced at an arraignment hearing Tuesday afternoon, and detailed in an indictment released immediately after.
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These are the charges and it boils down to how he recorded or paid for the "Stormy" payments. Or if the "Stormy" payments were used to further his campaign. Which could be a he said/she said type thing because he has stated those payments were not for the campaign but to shield his wife from embarrassment. One is against the law and the other isn't. It is up to the DA to have proof that it is one and not the other. Which could be very hard to prove.

Legal experts have said that the apparent prosecution theory of the case is an untested application of state law, but that it isn’t necessarily fatal to the case. Trump’s legal team is expected to try to have the case tossed before it ever gets to trial — arguing that, among other things, there was no crime committed because even the alleged conduct by Trump does not fit the meaning or application of the law.
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This is were everything will fall on. The problem for the defense is that they MUST PROVE that it was solely meant to further his campaign and how he "falsified" tax documents. The tax stuff could come into play. Which could be interesting.... because if he took them as deductions or how he did the tax stuff actually was recorded. This could be anything from a fine to small jail time. But again needs to be figured out by all.

Also the issue with the defense is what other evidence do they have? If it is all just Cohen and Stormy.... it is a very weak case. Since Cohen has flip flopped his story over time from one thing to another then back to the original then back again. It could be torn apart as just a jaded ex employee. Plus Cohens own lawyer saying things that contradict what Cohen is presumably saying.

Anyways.... grab the pop corn and watch the S-show begin.


Edit:

If you go to the link above and then click on the link to the actual indictment it will show you each count. All 34 counts are the exact same. It has to do with how he logged a payment in a ledger of the Trump Trust in control by the Trump Organization. Now most of the stuff is dated in 2017... Which he was the president and not a part of the organization.... I believe.

Some things to consider and might be brought up. Was Trump the "president" of the Trump Organization at the time? Did he have any "input" or legal title in said Organization.

This might be how he could get off. Just because his name is on it doesn't mean he has anything to do with how it is run. Just like the tax fraud case it was on the board members not TRUMP who did the stuff.
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Plainsman
The statute of limitations clock does not stop when someone moves. It's intent is that if no prosecutor takes it within the alloted time it's not worth pursuing. Trump moved because of taxes. Also have we forgotten Stormy Daniel's lost in court and had to pay Trump.
I predict this will be empty " we got him now" number ---- what about 20?
The left are without conscience. If they can't stop him they will kill him.
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