we ALL need to contact our senators on this one now... 4-3 do pass insn't overwhelming support
SB2048 (HPC) amended for morning duck hunting too
SB 2048 - (Introduced by legislative council's judiciary B committee) - Would amend the North Dakota Century Code to allow for the number of nonresident waterfowl hunting licenses to be determined based on total hunting pressure. SNRC amended to allow the governor a 25 percent variation from the concept; and duck hunting would only be allowed in the morning for the first two weeks. Reported back 4-3 do-pass.
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Hold your horses on this one for now. Think there was further comm. action on this bill today, and we're waiting to find out what happened. There are a few possibilities and potentially different approaches. We'll get word out as soon as we've gotten our arms around the current status. Undoubtedly, we'll need Senator contact on this bill next week and Representative contact on 1307 (Nelson Plan - that came out of HNRC today too, although I haven't seen the final version), but let's hold off for now until we know for sure what the final versions are and therefore what we should be asking our Senators and Reps to do.
That would mean that only non-res. could hunt ducks until noon?But residents could hunt ducks in the afternoon?This is the same thing in Manitoba goose hunting.Non-Canadians can only hunt geese in the morning and res. can hunt all day.
Dan,
My text is copied directly off the NDG&F web site. Not official.
The amendments on this bill should be officially updated this evening on the Senate Records (unless they will wait until Monday - weekend started already ?). Updates entered in the evening.
Ken,
Who knows ? Maybe this is the way the opp is attempting to kill the bill or atleast lower support.
Anyone know a senator that can update the new text.
My text is copied directly off the NDG&F web site. Not official.
The amendments on this bill should be officially updated this evening on the Senate Records (unless they will wait until Monday - weekend started already ?). Updates entered in the evening.
Ken,
Who knows ? Maybe this is the way the opp is attempting to kill the bill or atleast lower support.
Anyone know a senator that can update the new text.
G&F does a real good job updating their site, but as PH noted, their status reports are summaries only and raise questions like the one posed by Ken. For most bills, the summaries are pretty straightforward and complete. On the waterfowl bills, given the amendments and continued work they're receiving, we need to see the actual bill language before I'd be comfortable forming an opinion or approach. That will not likely be avialable until early next week, but if I can get the actual text or a reliable detailed summary, I'll pass it along before the official legislative website is updated next week. If anyone else gets very reliable info over the weekend, please post.
If that is what it says,I am not in favor of that.I have a feeling it was added to get more no votes.I also think the 25% is to high.If the HPC said 30,000 licenses were available,the gov. could add 7500 more.Kind of defeats the purpose of the HPC idea.Knowing our Gov. he sure as heck wouldn't ask for 7500 less.
I dont know Ken..... Who does the morning only hunt hurt more???? Not that that is the goal, but if you think about it, that provides a more gradual hunting pressure to begin with, and probably some NR would hold off until after the first two weeks. THe down side is High School Kids I suppose, but then NR could not hunt pheasants in the afternoon that first week either. Have thought about it quite a bit today, and for the typical resident, not traveling 200 miles from home to hunt, I think this is actually a really good idea, especially if it is the only way to get some sort of cap passed. Tom :lol:
Tom, I think the morning hunt hurts everyone, but especially the youth hunters and the hunting families. Kids are busy these days, and you take what time with them you can get. Why should hunting families have to choose between soocer/football/volleyball/gymanastics and hunting on Saturdays, and between church and hunting on Sundays. And as you mentioned, what about the rural/college kids, and some of us adults for that matter, who try to sneak out after work/school for an afternoon shoot - might be the only chance all week.
Yes, it may also hold some birds in the state, but at too great a cost. Great for the bars and retail, bad for hunters, especially youth hunters and hunting families. This amendment stinks and I think has motives far different than simply keeping the birds around.
That said, we can't throw the baby out with the bathwater. We'll take a hard look at the final 2048 language, probably grumble and groan for a few hours, take some aspirin and then fight like hell to get it passed. Not much choice if we're looking for a permanent solution.
Yes, it may also hold some birds in the state, but at too great a cost. Great for the bars and retail, bad for hunters, especially youth hunters and hunting families. This amendment stinks and I think has motives far different than simply keeping the birds around.
That said, we can't throw the baby out with the bathwater. We'll take a hard look at the final 2048 language, probably grumble and groan for a few hours, take some aspirin and then fight like hell to get it passed. Not much choice if we're looking for a permanent solution.
I have to agree with tsodak, I don't think hunting only in the morning would have a drastic effect on many at all. I know many farm kids and families and the local kids have other things going on in the afternoons just as our city kids have. BB, Football, etc. I'd have to bet that most of the ducks shot in the state are shot before noon anyway. I'd say let the ducks rest and feed in the afternoon......how many people here, including myself, have complained of all the pressure and how fast it moves the ducks out of the state. Just my opinion...remember we've been talking about compromise and this would hinder very few hunters.
I do not believe that anyone would think hunting hours for ducks should be A.M. only. Dan is right this will make more land off limits in south central North Dakota. Our upland birds are not plentiful and the increased pressure on this resource will close many accres of land because hunters will not have a choice to pursue waterfowl. These area's will look like plot land in SW part of the state pounded flat. The landowners are not overprotective of waterfowl as most see them as pests to some extent, but grouse, partridge, and pheasant fall under a different light. I called 20 landowner Friday night and this morning asking that they contact reps and sen. to remove this. The majority said they would post this fall to keep the upland birds from being over hunted.
Once again our elected officals are not in touch with landowners and hunters. We are putting a one size fits all aproach to these issues and that is wrong. This punishes rural famlies the most. I can site at least 10 famlies in SC ND that the kids get off the bus do chores grab the shotgun and dog or waders and walk out to a slough and hunt ducks. They do not have the luxary of hunting in the morning. The solution to pressure is limiting hunters not hunting hours.
Would this restrict the ablity to hunt geese full days as we do now. Would a compromise suchas that be more of a benift. I see this as another roadblock to keep our young people involved and excited about becoming sportmen and women. I currently take my daughters out after school twice a week early in the season, We do not have upland huntingwithout drivingmore than 2 hours oneway. They would be punished for being young and dependant on someone for the amount of time they have in the field.
This will encourage more leasing by guides and outfitters as they will have to have even more of the prime land to satisfity the paying customer, and will lock out more freelance hunters.
Simple math 5 hours to get a limit of ducks or 10 hours to do the same. Paying client wants his moneys worth in ducks, guide leases better hunting area.
Freelance hunter same hours less access do to leasing increased pressure on public area's. This will hurt everyone but the guides and those with the deep pockets to lease up waterfowl hunting area's.
Once again our elected officals are not in touch with landowners and hunters. We are putting a one size fits all aproach to these issues and that is wrong. This punishes rural famlies the most. I can site at least 10 famlies in SC ND that the kids get off the bus do chores grab the shotgun and dog or waders and walk out to a slough and hunt ducks. They do not have the luxary of hunting in the morning. The solution to pressure is limiting hunters not hunting hours.
Would this restrict the ablity to hunt geese full days as we do now. Would a compromise suchas that be more of a benift. I see this as another roadblock to keep our young people involved and excited about becoming sportmen and women. I currently take my daughters out after school twice a week early in the season, We do not have upland huntingwithout drivingmore than 2 hours oneway. They would be punished for being young and dependant on someone for the amount of time they have in the field.
This will encourage more leasing by guides and outfitters as they will have to have even more of the prime land to satisfity the paying customer, and will lock out more freelance hunters.
Simple math 5 hours to get a limit of ducks or 10 hours to do the same. Paying client wants his moneys worth in ducks, guide leases better hunting area.
Freelance hunter same hours less access do to leasing increased pressure on public area's. This will hurt everyone but the guides and those with the deep pockets to lease up waterfowl hunting area's.
Am I not geting this ??? Is this am only stuff, for just Non Residents ??? or it it being added (proposed) for everyone ???
MY READING AND UNDERSTANDING IS THAT IT APPLIES ACROSS THE BOARD, PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG. I HAVE A CALL INTO SOME OF THE COMMITTE MEMBERS FOR BETTER CLARIFICATION BUT NO REPONSE AS OF NOW.
I HOPE THIS IS NOT THE RESULT OF THE AMOUNT OF PRESSURE APPLIED TO THE NONRESIDENT ISSUES, I HOPE WE HAVE THE ENTHUSIASM TO FIGHT FOR LIMITS ON GUIDES AND OUTFITTERS AS WELL.
RON
I HOPE THIS IS NOT THE RESULT OF THE AMOUNT OF PRESSURE APPLIED TO THE NONRESIDENT ISSUES, I HOPE WE HAVE THE ENTHUSIASM TO FIGHT FOR LIMITS ON GUIDES AND OUTFITTERS AS WELL.
RON
I agree with HWM.You would be limiting us that work or the kids that go to school.If there is too much pressure then limit the number of hunters,not the shooting hours.Why should I have to give up a lot of hunts.If you want to limit the hours then shooting hours can open at noon and go till sunset.So we are all on equal footing,which is what SD does with pheasants.
Looked at the legislative update - nothing official yet.
If it really is written for both residents and NR, then I would argue that this may be spin on the bill to slow resident sportsmen's support.
Some may argue if the increased hunting pressure is forcing ducks out of the state early, than lets do the same thing we did with geese.
Really a negative towards ND youth if this is the case. We often take our kids (all ND resident kids - mine can not hunt yet) and go jump shooting after our morning goose hunt. Or one of us will take the kids duck hunting over decoys in the evening while a couple of us scout for the next morning's goose field.
Or what about that front that passes in the afternoon, low clouds, drizzle, and mallards hitting the barley field hard. Now off limits in the early season ?
MN has a 4pm closure for duck hunting the first 9 days (or so) of the season. They have put this into effect to protect resident breeding ducks. I guess they have substantiated the 4pm closure has protected resident hen mallards via band return studies.
Do not believe that it keeps ducks in the state of MN. Does not keep ducks around longer. Does not shortstop early migrating ducks in MN.
It does keep youth and working class people from hunting in the afternoon early in the season.
If it really is written for both residents and NR, then I would argue that this may be spin on the bill to slow resident sportsmen's support.
Some may argue if the increased hunting pressure is forcing ducks out of the state early, than lets do the same thing we did with geese.
Really a negative towards ND youth if this is the case. We often take our kids (all ND resident kids - mine can not hunt yet) and go jump shooting after our morning goose hunt. Or one of us will take the kids duck hunting over decoys in the evening while a couple of us scout for the next morning's goose field.
Or what about that front that passes in the afternoon, low clouds, drizzle, and mallards hitting the barley field hard. Now off limits in the early season ?
MN has a 4pm closure for duck hunting the first 9 days (or so) of the season. They have put this into effect to protect resident breeding ducks. I guess they have substantiated the 4pm closure has protected resident hen mallards via band return studies.
Do not believe that it keeps ducks in the state of MN. Does not keep ducks around longer. Does not shortstop early migrating ducks in MN.
It does keep youth and working class people from hunting in the afternoon early in the season.
I just recently discovered this site and have been trying to read past posts to get a feel for what is the general direction and consensus.
I think the bill says that the early closure is for everyone, which would make the most sense. If you are trying to let the resource rest why wouldn't everyone want them to rest. The residents get them for the first week by themselves and then it's a level playing field for everyone. If it goes into effect my friends and I would not come until the third week or later.
I think the bill says that the early closure is for everyone, which would make the most sense. If you are trying to let the resource rest why wouldn't everyone want them to rest. The residents get them for the first week by themselves and then it's a level playing field for everyone. If it goes into effect my friends and I would not come until the third week or later.
It sounds like they are testing our cohesivenss...SO the residents want to protect the resource...well here's a way to do it, early closing. We'll see if they real want this or are the greedy hunters we a protrayed to be... :eyeroll:
Another option wopuld be pile so much stuff on it, so it wont pass, or get voted on(I suspect they really do not want to touch the issue as its seen as no win).
Another option wopuld be pile so much stuff on it, so it wont pass, or get voted on(I suspect they really do not want to touch the issue as its seen as no win).
The guides have always hated the afternoon SOB hunting & most do not do it.
What are all those NR's going to do all afternoon ??? Drink & scout ???
If this passes I will quit hunting ND & spend 2 full weeks in Canada. & fish ND & bow hunt in the fall.
I have always enjoyed evening duck hunting - as most go out in the am & get their limits.
I am so disgusted with how ND is managing (actually NOT) managing all this :******:
All this political BS - asking unknowledgeable Legislators to do this & don't do that - is insane :eyeroll:
Who ever asks for these amendments should be exposed & made to show creditable reason thru a committee of true professionals (for a yes or no) consideration before it can influence a bill. (The current committees are biased & lost) This is the saddest thing I have ever seen. As it can & will affect the future of waterfowling.
It is abuse of government powers.
Most hunters will not know, what is going on until it's too Late. & once some of this Crap passes it will be harder than ever to change.
How has this come to be ??? (letting the commercial sides of all this) influence so many things ??? :******: I still say our G&FD should be the ones deciding these things. Can't a Bill be written or referal vote be prepared to void all the Legislature is doing & give real power & control back to the G&FD ??? :******: :******: :******:
What are all those NR's going to do all afternoon ??? Drink & scout ???
If this passes I will quit hunting ND & spend 2 full weeks in Canada. & fish ND & bow hunt in the fall.
I have always enjoyed evening duck hunting - as most go out in the am & get their limits.
I am so disgusted with how ND is managing (actually NOT) managing all this :******:
All this political BS - asking unknowledgeable Legislators to do this & don't do that - is insane :eyeroll:
Who ever asks for these amendments should be exposed & made to show creditable reason thru a committee of true professionals (for a yes or no) consideration before it can influence a bill. (The current committees are biased & lost) This is the saddest thing I have ever seen. As it can & will affect the future of waterfowling.
It is abuse of government powers.
Most hunters will not know, what is going on until it's too Late. & once some of this Crap passes it will be harder than ever to change.
How has this come to be ??? (letting the commercial sides of all this) influence so many things ??? :******: I still say our G&FD should be the ones deciding these things. Can't a Bill be written or referal vote be prepared to void all the Legislature is doing & give real power & control back to the G&FD ??? :******: :******: :******:
My 2 cents: As stated above, most of the hardcore duck hunters go out in the morning and get their limits. I would imagine that very few ducks (percentage-wise) are shot in the afternoon. The majority of those who hunt in the PM are probably high school kids and locals that sneak out for an hour or two after work. I would doubt that they add much to the pressure that causes the ducks to leave the state. If this passes, just one more reason to retire in Sodak!
This is just a thought, but maybe they are trying to stop people from double dipping in limits. I know that a FEW people from other states like to shoot a limit in the morning, "eat them for lunch", then go shoot another limit in the evening.
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