[Csquared]

Smokeless powder is illegal in ND for the special muzzleloader season, as it should be.

I think it should be perfectly legal...until you load it from the other end ! oke:

Did you get one before the rifle hunters?

 

[barebackjack]

Smokeless powder is illegal in ND for the special muzzleloader season, as it should be.

I think it should be perfectly legal...until you load it from the other end ! oke:

Did you get one before the rifle hunters?

Nope. Ive been having to wear that ugly orange crap the last few outings. Orange just isnt my color.

Had opportunities, passed a few good ones as ive been seeing a few great ones. Still got over a month left for bowhunting, im not worried.......yet.

 

[cheapdux]

I agree with Csquared. Still a MUZZLELOADER, still one shot, still have reload time, still have to work up a load that is accurate and lethal. Just cuz its smokeless doesn't mean it shoots itself and scores a hit everytime. As far as orange goes, where i'm from all gun seasons require orange you still have to always know your target and whats behind it. Your gonna have unsafe, shot at anything that moves, unethical, see if i can draw blood, "Shooters" (not hunters in my opinion) in any season, EVEN BOW SEASON. Why would you want to put restrictions on a weapon to make it as unlethal and inaccurate as possible. if a guy wants to hunt primative let him, he'll enjoy it if its his thing. If a guy like to hunt with a modern tack driver, and finds that enjoyable, good for him let him also. If they prohibit smokeless powder, and scopes with magnification, and sabots, and copperplated bullets, and bullets that are over twice the length as it is wide, and crap like that. Then make a season for REAL PRIMITIVE WEAPONS and prohibit rifling, and mini balls, black powder substitutes. Make it smooth bores, roundballs and patches only. I mean where on the timeline does one stop and at what techonlogy "old or new". it was all modernat one time or another.

muzzleloader season in my opinion is a gun loaded from the MUZZLE

 

[Csquared]

You're preaching to the choir, dux...but I would bet you're about to be introduced to barebackjack. :wink:

I suspect that long ago a "primitive weapon" was a stick or a rock. And technology really took a quantum leap when someone learned to sharpen the rock. And when they learned to attach the sharpened rock TO THE STICK...well then they had to create a special season to protect the herd :lol:

We're WAY off topic, and this subject has had the hell beat out of it, but it's still fun every time.

Enjoy!

It's all yours, Jack! :wink:

 

[8x56mn]

Can someone show me where in the ND regs that says you can't use smokless powder in your ML during any ML season. I have searched and cannot find any reference to it?

 

[8x56mn]

Well I contacted ND wildlife concerning the ML regs and the following is their reply:

"Centerfire rifles of .22 to .49 caliber, and muzzleloading rifles of .45 caliber or larger, are legal for deer. Centerfire rifles of .50 caliber or larger using smokeless powder are prohibited."

 

[alleyyooper]

In Michigans rule book for Muzzle loader season it states Black powder or subsitute.
No body has been arestted for useing smokeless powder yet that wants to take it to the high court.
I take the stand that smokeless was the first substute for black powder.

I don't have a ML 10 but think they are a fine rifle no matter what you use to propell the projectile.

There is a forum just for ML 10 shooters which you will have to google to find. They also have a special section here for ML 10 shooters and other rifles that shoot smokeless.
http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB ... m.php?f=14

Buck horn 209 isn't the answer either. Some of the older inlines just won't work with the stuff. Also some of the older inlines can not be retrofitted for 209 usage. It won't work in side locks either.

Al

 

[Dak]

8 x 56,

The info you were given is for the deer gun season not the muzzleloader season. This is the muzzleloader season info:

"Muzzleloader Season - Muzzleloading long guns of .45 caliber or larger,
and handguns .50 caliber or larger, loaded through the muzzle, with flint
or percussion ignition, firing black powder or black powder substitutes are
legal. Smokeless powders are not legal. Telescopic sights are prohibited.
No magnification (1x) scopes are legal."

 

[barebackjack]

You're preaching to the choir, dux...but I would bet you're about to be introduced to barebackjack. :wink:

Heh heh heh. :lol:

IMO. If the state has a standalone season for MLer, (that is IF), than that season is there for a reason. To allow a time for a less primitive weapon to be used without the modern stuff.

IMO the regular gun season (again this is ND where we have a gun season AND a MLer season) is for the gadgets, do hickeys, smokeless powders, powered scopes, laster tasers and bells and whistles. If a guy wants to use a scope, smokeless powders, hell, maybe even wrap all his load components up in a brass case of some sort, he can do it here.

My traditional weapons are NO LESS deadly or effective than the fancy inlines and all that goes with them when used in their effective ranges. Of the three I currently have, ALL will do sub 2" groups out to 100 yards. I think most guys that make the "more effective" argument have nothing to base it off. I have plenty of killing energy and am capable of making killing hits out to that range. I dont need to shoot farther as im in it for the hunt, not the shot.

I think most guys want to use all the fancy new gadgets to make it easier. They want to be able to extend their ranges by using scopes that enable longer range shots to made more accurately, they want to use smokeless powders that generate higher and more consistent velocities to they can tighten up their long range groups, and so on so forth. They want this and that all of which that make it EASIER. Seems its less about "hunting" and more about "shooting". And again, here in ND at least, we all ready have a season for long range weapons, its called the regular gun season.

This is me jumping off my soapbox. :lol:

 

[Csquared]

I almost could've typed it for ya, Jack! :wink:

What took ya so long?

 

[barebackjack]

I almost could've typed it for ya, Jack! :wink:

What took ya so long?

Ive been at drill since friday. A whole weekend of hunting down the tubes.

 

[screwgunner]

well let me tell ya it is a gun for all ,you can use light loads for the kids or you can go with a 300 grn. bullet and 70 grains of 2015 and kill just about any animal on the contenet. i do not sugjest a scope with this load ! or hold it tight. i have cut my eye twice. but 40 grains of 5744 and 250 or 240 grn. hornady xtp and the short high presure sabot i can hit a 1" box at 100 yards every time. No smoke to block the view of your shot. humane kills ! i have not had a deer run any, they fall in there tracks. I have shot deer with my cva they run 70 80 yards not with the 10 ML ll . the triger is adjustabe all the way two 2 pounds or up . a can of powder lasts twice as long and you don't have to worry about your powder going bad over time . The only down side is you have to get a good powder scales i recomend RCBS scale not electronic ones . safe as long as you use a sabot and bullet and nothing else if the powder charge is to high the sabot will fail and the gas will go around the bullet .
I love mine

 

[screwgunner]

I know alot of you are skeptical about use of riffle powder in a muzzleloader. I was too, but one day at the range a fellow shooter came over and we started talking . That lead to me putting a double load of powder in 84 grains of 5744 it was like getting hit buy a stun gun!!!! Well, i had to check the gun out before i ever shot it again . I shoved a .54 cal.lead ball down the barral and it was a even push all the way through. I could not beleave it.
I will never again shoot a double load but as far as the safety of a 10 ml II I am satisfied :sniper:

 

[Jig Master]

I don't currently own a Savage ml., but if I could afford one, I would buy it in a heart beat. I like the idea of the easy clean up of smokeless powder, an also the fast 1 in 24 twist in the barrel for heavy bullets. Someone wrote about being able to shoot .458 and .475 caliber bullets out of a Knight .52 cal. muzzleloader. Anyone can shoot those same calibers out of a .50 cal. muzzleloader if, the proper sabot is used. I have some .475 Hornady 325 grain XTP mags, which came in a package marked for .50 cal. guns, and fired one round with no problem. I would think that the fast twist rate of the Savage, would stabilize the.475 400 grain XTPs nicely, or any of the heavier .458 bullets, from 350 grains up to maybe 500 grains. I wish Savage offered a stainless model with a laminated stock again, because their plastic stocks are kind of cheesy.

 

[Jig Master]

I don't currently own a Savage ml., but if I could afford one, I would buy it in a heart beat. I like the idea of the easy clean up of smokeless powder, an also the fast 1 in 24 twist in the barrel for heavy bullets. Someone wrote about being able to shoot .458 and .475 caliber bullets out of a Knight .52 cal. muzzleloader. Anyone can shoot those same calibers out of a .50 cal. muzzleloader if, the proper sabot is used. I have some .475 Hornady 325 grain XTP mags, which came in a package marked for .50 cal. guns, and fired one round with no problem. I would think that the fast twist rate of the Savage, would stabilize the.475 400 grain XTPs nicely, or any of the heavier .458 bullets, from 350 grains up to maybe 500 grains. I wish Savage offered a stainless model with a laminated stock again, because their plastic stocks are kind of cheesy.

 

[Csquared]

Haven't been here in awhile and had almost forgotten about this thread. I've since bought a Savage and am in the process of wringing it out now. Not surprised to hear about the safety mentioned above. I know they have been tested extensively at pressures MANY TIMES listed limits with no problems. So far I've been impressed with the rifle. 300 grain XTP's at 2000-2100 fps with 5744 are a breeze with remarkably low recoil. Almost defies physics. However, 300 grain Barnes loads at 2300 fps plus with VV N-120 have to be comparable to a kick in the jaw by a rodeo bull!

 

[huntin1]

I know alot of you are skeptical about use of riffle powder in a muzzleloader. I was too, but one day at the range a fellow shooter came over and we started talking . That lead to me putting a double load of powder in 84 grains of 5744 it was like getting hit buy a stun gun!!!! Well, i had to check the gun out before i ever shot it again . I shoved a .54 cal.lead ball down the barral and it was a even push all the way through. I could not beleave it.
I will never again shoot a double load but as far as the safety of a 10 ml II I am satisfied :sniper:

Glad it turned out ok for you, I know that earlier versions of the 10ML had some issues with catastophic failure when using smokeless powder. I believe they changed the metallurgy of the barrel and it took care of the issue.

I bet it kicked like a mule, but, I doubt it was like a stun gun. If you like I can hook you up with a 5 second ride at 50,000 volts......that way you could compare and you'd know if it was like getting hit with a stun gun. :wink: 8) :iroll:

:beer:

huntin1

 

[screwgunner]

Have you ever seen the guys shooting the t-rex on you tube take alook and tell me if you would take a hit like that or 7 seconds with a stun gun , at least you will passout with a stun gun. LOL