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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am buying an 1874 Quigley Sharps in .45-70 cal.. This has been a dream gun of mine for many years, even before the movie Quigley Down Under came out, I wanted a Sharps rifle.

Now that my dream is going to come true I want to know as much as possible about this gun and it's amunition.

The 1874 Quigley Sharps has a 34" barrel and most ballistics are done on rifles with shorter barrels, so I'll have to figure that out myself.

I have a couple questions about sights. What is the difference between creedmore, soule, tang and vernier sights? They all look almost the same.

How is the windage measured in "minutes" and how far is a minute at what range? This really is kind of confusing. On the Soule sights it says that one full turn of the windage is 2 1/2 minutes of MOA adjustment. What should I get from that?

Also, there are a lot of .45-70 amunitions out there. I want to use a good hunting round for everything, so I don't have to readjust anything in my head before shooting a new round. If you have any ideas in this area, I would appreciate your input.

This type of rifle is completely new to me, but I know this transition will be a fun ride. This will be my only big game rifle from the time I get it. I've always loved single shot rifles and this is the best ever made in my opinion. I hope there are some traditional competition shooters here who might want to take me under their wing also when I get my rifle. That would be very cool!

Have a great day all!
Del
 

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Del,

Congrats on the new rifle, I would love to have a Sharps. I am not sure about the differences in the sights, but I can explain the "minutes".

MOA or minutes of angle, simply explained means the distance a bullet moves at a given range. For example, 1 MOA at 100 yards is 1", so the bullets impact will move 1" for every 1 MOA of change on the sight at 100 yards. At 200 yards 1 MOA is 2", and at 300 yards 1 MOA is 3" and so on for whatever yardage you are shooting at.

There is a more technical explaination for this and when you get technical 1 MOA is actually something like 1.049" at 100 yards, it may be something different but that figure is close. Point is the 1" at 100 yards is so close for most shooters so that is the figure that everyone uses.

You will also hear rifle shooters talk about group sizes in MOA. Like, "My rifle will shoot .5" MOA or 1/2" MOA." They are saying the the bullet group size at 100 yards is 1/2" when measured center to center. At 200 yards the group size would be 1". And so on.

There, have I confused the heck out of you?

Someone else may be better at explaining it,I can put the MOA's on my scope when I need to but explaining it clearly is something that I don't do well.

:beer:

huntin1
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
huntin1 said:
Del,

Congrats on the new rifle, I would love to have a Sharps. I am not sure about the differences in the sights, but I can explain the "minutes".

MOA or minutes of angle, simply explained means the distance a bullet moves at a given range. For example, 1 MOA at 100 yards is 1", so the bullets impact will move 1" for every 1 MOA of change on the sight at 100 yards. At 200 yards 1 MOA is 2", and at 300 yards 1 MOA is 3" and so on for whatever yardage you are shooting at.

There is a more technical explaination for this and when you get technical 1 MOA is actually something like 1.049" at 100 yards, it may be something different but that figure is close. Point is the 1" at 100 yards is so close for most shooters so that is the figure that everyone uses.

You will also hear rifle shooters talk about group sizes in MOA. Like, "My rifle will shoot .5" MOA or 1/2" MOA." They are saying the the bullet group size at 100 yards is 1/2" when measured center to center. At 200 yards the group size would be 1". And so on.

There, have I confused the heck out of you?

Someone else may be better at explaining it,I can put the MOA's on my scope when I need to but explaining it clearly is something that I don't do well.

:beer:

huntin1
Thanks man! It's a tribute to my mom and will hopefuly be handed down for generations after I'm gone.

Ok now. So I can figure out 1 MOA = 1" @ 100 yards and so on. Now let's add the "wind" into this...lol

Example; Say I already know my bullet drop. Target @ 300 yards, wind left to right @ 20 MPH. How many MOA to the left do I aim, or What wind MPH = 1 MOA?

Damn, I might learn something today...lol
:beer:

Thanks!
Del
 

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Del,

Windage MOA is basically the same as for bullet drop. 1 MOA of right windage will move your bullet 1" right at 100 yards.

I know, this doesn't answer your question of how much windage you would need in a 20 mph wind. To many variables to answer correctly. You need to know if the wind is full value, blowing straight across at a 90 degree angle, or some fraction of full value. Then you need to know how much your particular bullet load drifts in a given wind.

The bullet load is the easiest to figure out. You will need a ballistics program, the type of bullet you are using and the muzzle velocity. Plug these into the ballistic program and you can generate a printout of what your bullet drop and windage for a given wind speed will be from 0 to 1000 yards or more. I use Sierra Infinity.

It is much harder to learn to determine wind speed and wind value so that you can figure out what to dial in.

Hope this helps.

huntin1
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
huntin1 said:
Del,

Windage MOA is basically the same as for bullet drop. 1 MOA of right windage will move your bullet 1" right at 100 yards.

I know, this doesn't answer your question of how much windage you would need in a 20 mph wind. To many variables to answer correctly. You need to know if the wind is full value, blowing straight across at a 90 degree angle, or some fraction of full value. Then you need to know how much your particular bullet load drifts in a given wind.

The bullet load is the easiest to figure out. You will need a ballistics program, the type of bullet you are using and the muzzle velocity. Plug these into the ballistic program and you can generate a printout of what your bullet drop and windage for a given wind speed will be from 0 to 1000 yards or more. I use Sierra Infinity.

It is much harder to learn to determine wind speed and wind value so that you can figure out what to dial in.

Hope this helps.

huntin1
This gets more interesting all the time. So basically what you're telling me is that every shot is different and all I can count on are the non-variables in the equassion...lol I can understand that. Isn't it amazing how the old timers learned this stuff and didn't even have a ballistics program? They lobbed them in like arrows and hit their target...lol Well, the best I can do then is make sure my amunition is always the same and shoot as much as possible to get it right. Sounds like I'm in for a lot of fun...lol I probably still won't take a shot at game more than a couple hundred yards anyway. I like target shooting and I'm a stickler for accuracy. I can't wait to actually have it in my hands...lol I'll have to check out all the ammo companies who make .45-70. I want the best all around hunting round I can afford. I don't want to have to re-sight it in because I keep changing bullets. I'm sure I'll do way more target shooting than hunting anyway.

I'm so pumped about this I can't stop looking at it in the Cabelas catalog...lol

:p
Del
 

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I have one you will love it. it is so fun to shoot. You made the right choice in the 45-70 mine is a 45-90 ammo is hard to fine and $. In sure does a whitetail in. I haven't made a 1000 yd shoot like Billy what's is name did 200 yd is a differant story.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
rlzman68 said:
I have one you will love it. it is so fun to shoot. You made the right choice in the 45-70 mine is a 45-90 ammo is hard to fine and $. In sure does a whitetail in. I haven't made a 1000 yd shoot like Billy what's is name did 200 yd is a differant story.
I just can't wait. I chose the .45-70 for that very reason. I wanted the .45-110 like in the movie but I'm not paying almost $100 a box for shells...lol I figure if the old timers can hit what they aimed at with .45-70, so can I...maybe...lol It should still shoot farther than any other because it's the only rifle on the market with a 34" barrel. I expect to use a lot of amunition next summer. It comes with a mid-range rear sight and I'm putting the Davide Pedersoli long range Soule sights on it as well. I'll sight in the first rear sight at 100 yards and the Soule sight at 200 yards. From there it's all about learning elevation and windage. There goes a thousand boxes of ammo...lol It would be nice to have someone to shoot with around here. We could bet on who's gonna buy the beer after the shoot...lol

It seems that with these kinds of guns, you're either really into them or you're not. I'm so stuck in the past on guns, I don't like anything that looks new or "standard". I still want a Henrey's with a 30" barrel in .45 LC and an 1860 Navy Colt Open Top Conversion in .45 LC. Then I'll have the set...lol I'm selling my .243 Ruger M77 Compact and will only have "vintage" style guns except for one. I want a Ruger Single Shot #1B Standard in .22-250 for varmints. We have coyotes up the wazoo here and I don't want to put big .45 holes in them...lol

Have a great day!
Del
 

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DelSnavely I have not had the bucks for a Sharp's, so I shoot a Browning copy of the Winchester 1885. It is a falling block so it has the same strength as the Ruger number 1. However, it has the octagon barrel which I think makes it perhaps the nicest looking production rifle out there. The 45/70 I have is called the high wall, but you might want to check out the low wall in 22-250.

I figure the last gun Obama will let me have will be my 45/70 single shot. At one time they did call for a ban on all calibers that had been used by the army and that's scary. I think Custer's guys used the 45/70 in the old Springfield trap door.

So with that in mind I blew $500 about ten minutes ago at Midway.USA. I had some old equipment that I am going to give to my son. Tonight I ordered Saeco molds in 44 mag and 45/70, with Lee production furnace and RCBS Lubamatic. Size dies and top punches and a half dozen tubes of SPG bullet lube. Right now 100 bullets for the 45/70 will run you over $40, but you can cast your own, size and lube for about $3.

I have some old molds that are good, but in the event I can't get gas checks I ordered new molds that work without gas checks. I can push a non gas check 300 gr cast out of my 45/70 at 2200 fps. The 240 gr flat nose out of my Marlin Cowboy Action model 1894 do such a good job on deer at 1800 fps that I don't think I will ever use jacketed bullets again.

I can only get to 600 yards with my 45/70 because I have a Marbles tang sight and not the vernier long range.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well guys, I've decided against buying the Quigley Sharps. I forgot how small of a guy I am and this gun is HUGE!

I'm really glad I didn't mail order this rifle before I actually saw and held one at a store. This gun is 51" long and weighs 13# but it is much different seeing it in a mag. than actually holding it in your hands...lol There's no way I'm carrying this gun all day while hunting.

I did buy an Uberti made Charles Daly Winchester Model 1892 in .45 Colt and an Uberti made Model 1860 Navy Colt Open Top Conversion in .45 Colt.

Now all I have to do is find a load I can hunt with instead of Cowboy Action loads that have less than 1000 FPS MV. My pellet gun shoots faster than that...lol

Thanks for all your help!
Del
 

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Del, check out the Browning copy of the 1885. It's a falling block action and an octagon barrel. It will cost you half of what the Sharps would have, weigh a lot less, and you can load black or smokeless powder. I think you would like it.
If you want to go cheap New England Arms can be had for around $225. Huntin1 had one and it shot very good.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Plainsman said:
Del, check out the Browning copy of the 1885. It's a falling block action and an octagon barrel. It will cost you half of what the Sharps would have, weigh a lot less, and you can load black or smokeless powder. I think you would like it.
If you want to go cheap New England Arms can be had for around $225. Huntin1 had one and it shot very good.
Thanks man! I do really like that style. I have a thing about buying cheap guns now though...lol The high end guns hold their value much better. I won't even buy a gun from Wal-Mart or K-Mart any more...lol I'll check out the Browning 1885. It may be something I want.

Thanks again!
Del
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Oh BTW, if you ever want a new gun, go ask what the best price for it is, then send your WIFE to ask the same question in a few days...lol

I asked the guy at the store what the best price was on both my 1892 Lever gun and the Conversion pistol. He said $850 for the 1892 and $520 on the Conversion.

Two days later, I sent my wife in to ask the SAME questions. She got the 1892 for $799 and the Conversion for $449...lol

SEND YOUR WIFE!
Del
 
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