SB I did try some last year. They patterned OK out of my guns but the Fiocci shells where better. One thing to keep in mind is that the shells are not sealed. This does not cause a probelm unless they get wet. Misfires rusted shot that cause you to shoot slugs instead of shot. This can be prevented if you use some cheap finger nail sealer on the ends.
Dropped one into the water and put it in the gun, and it misfired leaving the shot cup in the barrel could have been bad if I would not have checked to make sure the barrel was clear.
I shot som of these last year and was impressed.I load my own shells but was curious abut these Kents.They all went as fast as they siad they would and I had great patterns in my BGH.The shot was uniform and weighed at what they were supposed to for the size.One issue I did have with them was the wad that they use.It didn't hold up well to BB's with a few scrub holes in the wads that I inspected.But using 2's and 3's they didn't have a problem.As far as the water proof issue my buddy hunted with them in the rain twice and they never had any problems firing then or later,although they aint gonna be lik Drylocks.Speaking of Drylocks I checked some of the Xperts that go 1550.They did go close to that speed but the shot was CRAPPY,pitted and pellet weights were all over.And the sot charge was closer to about 1 3/16.They also use a two peice wads which some guns don't like.
It's all I shoot now for non-tox stuff because for me and my setup it just works the best. Last year during my SD duck hunt I only had two shoot at three hit ducks a second time to finish them off. Otherwise they went down dead. I use a Berreta 390 with a factory skeet choke for decoying birds and 4 shot, and geese I use same gun with patternmaster choke and BB shot both in 2 3/4" shells. Also use the 4 shot on pheasants and ruffies.
Well Guys I am trying a bit of it all. Kents, Feds, Win Supremes, Drylocks and a couple of boxes of Cabela's brew thrown in. Do you think that this is going to mess with my leads or should I just stick to one brand? The last seven or eight years I've stuck to BB's with the exception on shooting 2's on opening day.
SJB You have several brands on hand. If you have the time go pattern these and see which load your gun shoots the best. Does speed make a difference in leed? I suppose there is some difference between a 1300 and a 1550 but I dont think it will effect the hitting that much With a good follow through either load will connect.Slower usually means more shot . There is merit to that also. Good luck
Slower also generally means tighter, better patterns as the knuckle-balling and other ballistics effects of trying to push spheres through space that creates "pattern" is less sever at slower speeds. Remember how it was always easier to throw a curve-ball into the wind?
I'm a speed-freak convert. The new recent trend is to recognize speed as more of a marketing gimmick and go back to the slower/heavier loads, which the kill data of CONSEP has proven is far more lethal and results in much less wounding. Anything above 1300 fps is more gimmick than effective and often counterproductive in terms of payload tradeoff. The physics of spheres (as opposed to bullets) is such that for each 100 fps above 1300 at the barrel, only 3 fps is retained at 40 yards.
I know this is contra to all the marketing today, but there aren't a whole lot of doubters among those who have attended a recent CONSEP seminar.
This speed vs. shot thing has been argued over and over again. I have killed geese with super fast loads and heavy loads. In my honest opinion, I feel more confident with that little extra speed than more shot. I know many, many people who don't agree and thats alright. If the geese are close enough, however, it really doesnt matter what you use. Stick with the load you are most comfortable with and what works best through your gun. You should be fine. I also dont agree that speed is a "gimmick", when nearly every load out there is much faster has less shot than the comparable loads last year.
T-Shot, like I said, I'm a speed convert. Make a point of hitting a CONSEP seminar. There was at least one just North of you this summer (Sissieton?) and will likely be a couple others in SD next summer. Roster has no particular axe to grind on fast versus heavy, and through thousands of kills observed, x-rayed and the autopsied, the data and his thoughts on the subject are pretty compelling.
If you want to kill more and wound less, you need about 1300 fps in steel. Above that speed, you don't trade speed for payload, because it's darn hard to make minimum pellet counts at longer ranges with lighter payloads.
Where we agree is with respect to shorter, more preferable shots. Because of the cone shape of a pattern, it's much easier to reach pellet counts and therefore "lethality" at shorter ranges with less payload. If you are religious about only taking close shots, by all means shoot the lighter/faster loads, as the lighter loads have the requisite payload to meet pellet counts at shorter ranges. If, however, you're looking for one load to meet "lethality" requirements at all ranges, at or above 1300 fps, payload is more "lethal" than speed.
Chris shot 3" BB's from Kent out of my BGH last early season with great success. I don't think he even had a cripple with the stuff. I bought a couple of boxes to use and it shot well. I'm into Winchester Supreme BB's with 1 3/8oz payload at 1450 and the 1 3/8 2's @ 1450 for Geese with my BGH 10. And for my 12 BGH I shot 3" 2's with a Payload of 1 1/4 with the Hi-Velocity Winchester Drylox's. This is also a good goose load out to 35 yds. All of these pattern well out of my gun. I have pattern my loads through them over the years.
This lighter/faster stuff will work just fine if all shots are close, you never stretch, you kill clean on the first shot and never need to follow up at longer distances, etc. I don't know many folks that can say all of that is true all the time.
For shooting big geese at longer distances, CONSEP reccomends BBB to T. Over decoys, BB to BBB is reccomended. That's how I settled on BBB.
I guess what I'm suggesting is if you're looking for one load to do it all and always, most gun/choke/shell combos will require heavier and slower, contrary to all the marketing hype lately.
But don't take my word for it. Step back X yards (the longest shot you'll take) from the board and let fly with the stuff you like. If you can make 55-60 hits in a 30" circle, you're good to go.
This is kind of off the subject but... If I am shooting longer ranges I take a different gun. Long range take the ten. Decoying early canadas a twelve is fine. Late season decoying I switch back to the ten. I know this isn't possible for everyone to have two three or four guns but it is the best solution I think.
The idea of the one gun for everything is kind of bunk but it has been pushed by the manufacturers. A fast swinging light twelve with a shorter barrel on decoying ducks is awesome but that same light gun when trying to shoot long range geese with heavy loads is pretty terrible. Same thing goes the other way. Heavy tens are not good on close working ducks.
Been to one, and thats why I'm not saying that heavy loads are worthless. But I still will shoot what I feel most comfortable with and which works best for me. But lets think about something here, I said I use a 2 shot for most of the year at 1550 fps. In my 1 3/8 load, I have an average of 172 pellets compared to 97 in an 1 9/16 load of BBB. Now I know the shot is smaller, but by .04 of an inch. I also know that with an 1 3/8 BBB load you get 85 pellets, so I could see where there could be a problem with a fast, big load like that. I also use 1 3/8 BB, usually later in the year and on Snows, but that still gives me an average pellet count of about 100. So I am going to agree that in the bigger shot sizes (T and BBB), the lighter loads are not as lethal as the heavy loads. But, with the smaller size shot, you get a little extra speed (which, in my experience, has never "whiffled" while testing or patterning), and the same amount if not a higher pellet count. This is why I shoot the lighter, smaller loads.
The name of the CONSEP seminar I attended was called a "wounding loss" seminar. The focus was to reduce the estimated all-waterfowl all-US estimated 25% crippling rate. In raw numbers, this translates into over 3 million wounded waterfowl in the US each year. The goal is through a variety of techniques, including proper shotshells, to make hunters more lethal and produce less cripples. As you can tell, I was very impressed with the seminar, methodologies and supporting data.
I know other guys who shoot a fair amount of dueces/bb's at big geese and kill a bunch doing so. The CONSEP data would suggest that dueces are not an optimal shot size for obtaining "lethality" on big geese, or even BB other than big geese at normal decoying ranges. I suppose, but don't know, that smaller shot sizes (to a degree) can also be lethal (not cripple-producing) at very close decoying ranges.
I guess only you can be the judge on whether you for whatever reason feel you're as or more lethal at your shooting distances operating outside of the CONSEP reccomendations. I've killed a lot of critters with all different shot sizes. I've also wounded more than I feel good about. For me, I'm going to give the CONSEP stuff a real go and see if I can get my wounding way down. About 4-5 hours at the patterning board told me the CONSEP methods will probably go a long way in helping me do so.
Glad Roster has upped the speeds to 1300 f/s - he used to talk 1100 to 1300 f/s and his CONSEP tables were marked 1225-1450 f/s. When you raised the velocity question he tended to point to the upper end of his scales as being fine for "good" holes, while he continud to preach about making "enough" holes.
Mark, for lead, the reccomended speeds were lower. For steel, 1300'ish was what he said was a good threshold. He didn't have any beef going above that point (although he was very clear that the benfits were minimal) so long as you weren't trading payload needed to make minimum pellet counts to do so. With only so much room in a shell, it get's progresively harder to make the pellet counts the larger the shot size and the faster the push, as invariably faster means less payload.
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