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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
DU aquires lands - then does something to them (???) to make them duckier & then sells them ??? To fat cats who get a prime wetlands & turn into a legally baited shooters slaughter stop ??? Has this happened here yet ??? At the Fuge they all sound like this is normal :roll: http://www.refugeforums.com/refuge/show ... did=120253 They already act like they have all this land in ND & now they can sell it to the highest bidder ??? I think that stinks :eyeroll:

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Want Your Own Hunting Spot?...Check out the DU Land Sale
When eminent development pressure or habitat conversion threatens the integrity of critical landscapes, Ducks Unlimited works with willing landowners to buy land so conservation values are saved. Other circumstances arise when landowners actively seek Ducks Unlimited to sell or gift their land knowing DU will ensure the land will remain intact for all generations to come.

After Ducks Unlimited acquires a property, any needed grassland or wetland restorations are performed and the land is protected in perpetuity with conservation easements. Ducks Unlimited attempts to find suitable conservation buyers to purchase the land once habitat restorations are complete and protection is in place. Property has been sold to state conservation agencies, the USFWS Refuge System, and private citizens. In all cases, conservation easements are in place prior to selling the land so that the aesthetic and wildlife values of the land are permanently protected. Dollars raised from selling land are returned to an endowment where the money remains until other junctures arise where critical habitat is threatened.

The Conservation Land Directory is an innovative approach to selling land to private conservation buyers interested in owning landscapes dedicated to wildlife conservation. Using an internet-based auction format, anyone can bid on property DU has up for sale. The process is straightforward:

1. Register as a Conservation Buyer

2. Sign and mail to DU a completed Conservation Buyer Contract

3. Read the Property Information Packet detailing each property

4. Submit a bid on the property

Once the auction ends, the conservation buyer who has submitted the highest bid buys the land. The property is returned to private ownership, fully protected into perpetutity, and assured to provide habitat producing ducks for all to enjoy in this generation and all generations to come.

The buyer maintains all hunting rights on the property. As the new owner, you can hunt it, open it up for public hunting, or not hunt it at all, if that's your choice.

Current Land Sale...

Situated in South Dakota's Missouri Coteau, the Ipswich Grasslands is 680 acres of some of North America's most important waterfowl breeding habitat. Seasonal and semi-permanent wetlands are scattered across the property attracting a rich diversity of wildlife.

Ducks Unlimited has restored the preserve back to grassland creating excellent nesting habitat for mallards, pintail, and teal. Pheasants, white-tailed deer, and a wide variety of songbirds and shorebirds have been observed on the property.

Ducks Unlimited is seeking potential buyers to become stewards of this unique prairie landscape. Ducks Unlimited has protected in perpetuity the waterfowl values of the Ipswich Grasslands with grassland and wetland conservation easements. 40 acres of cropland have been set aside, providing opportunities for wildlife food plots or crop incomes.

A 10-acre parcel, located on the south end of the tract, is available for the establishment of a hunting retreat or cabin.
 

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"Dollars raised from selling land are returned to an endowment where the money remains until other junctures arise where critical habitat is threatened."

It's hard to fault their protection of threatened habitat, but once this land is auctioned off to the highest bidder, the possibility of access to the property would be difficult considering the buyer will have invested a big chunk of change into it.

How much money, habitat & effort does DU create or protect that's open to public hunting? Not sure if they cost share WPA's, WMA's etc. in various states?
 

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Fetch,

Do you bother doing any research at all or do you just go off half-cocked all the time?

What slaughter stop are you talking about?

The lands are open for hunting. They sold one PRIME piece to the SDGFP which is open to hunting. Once they sell it to the highest bidder, the owner can justifiably do whatever he wants with that property (duh).

So before you go around spreading hate and discontent like you have been doing, why don't you call the Bismarck DU office and ask some questions? (701-355-3500). You might actually learn something.

You don't get this upset at the PETA freaks that hang out here.

TM, contrary to what others on this and the ND Forum have suggested, there is a fair amount of WPA's that DU has done projects on. They mostly run the length of the Coteau and consist of islands, peninsula cut-offs, water control structures, etc. Mainentance on the projects is the responsability of the USFWS.

f
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I just see the potential for abuse

I see lands being bought by guides & outfitters & wealthy hunters - even corporations that use the property to provide hunts for their clients. Eventually taking away most of the best Natural wetlands. Cause it's Nature that makes them (Not DU) sure they can tinker with them - But in all honesty they should turn them all over to Delta & put their $$$ into real potential maintenance. Let them (Delta ) really maintain them, for producing ducks - Not to be legally baited - places where Fat cats go & shoot ducks. Like alot of the properties in the South - where commercial hunting has ruined the sport.

But I feel Better knowing ND is not part of such a scheme :D - SD & anything south of there, is marginal at best, as part of the Duck Factory. I just hope we (ND) never opens the door to anything like this. (Or Canada)
 

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Fetch.

I know Ipswich pretty well. This area at one time was off-the beaten-path as far as SD hunting goes. I suppose that has changed now too.

The country side in this area looks and feels just like North Dakota. Duck populations and reproduction through this area is excellent - when the wet cycle is on.

The duck factory does recognize ecosystems, it does not recognize geographic boundries drawn by governments.

The only difference between this part of the Dakotas and say Rugby is the winters are less severe. Thus more pheasants.

Too bad the people of SD could not have this 640 acres for public hunting.
 

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The DU Mission Statement is:

Ducks Unlimited conserves, restores, and manages wetlands and associated habitats for North America's waterfowl. These habitats also benefit other wildlife and people.

I think hunters are in the group of people that benefit. I suspect they do their television shows and put hunting in their magazine because they know that the hunter is their bread and butter for fundraisers.

They do a good job at what they do. However, no one can deny that the CRP and moisture of the 90's did more for the ducks than anything DU will or can do. What DU does becomes more important as more land is drained or drought occurs.

Membership is inexpensive and the magazine alone is woth the price of the membership. No waterfowler hunter should be without a membership in Ducks Unlimited or for that matter Delta Waterfowl, The Izzac Walton League, and the NRA.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
http://www.refugeforums.com/refuge/show ... ost1004082

I read somewhere that ND & Nebraska does not allow this kind of Transaction - there must be a good reason why ???

Here it is
They said that they would concentratte ion SOuth FDakota first, simply because that state's property laws allowed for perpetual conservation easements, while Nebraska and North Dakota laws did not.
 

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I agree 100% with Fetch. I couldn't believe it when I opened the latest DU magazine and read about this. Fetch is absolutely right, I've talked to DU guys off the record and they say you better hunt hard for the next 10 years because open-range hunting will be over by then. They get calls all the time from fat cats wanting to buy a spread, I guess this is DU's way to help them out. According to the magazine, they want to do this with 2,000,000 acres.

I've been a member of DU for as long as I can remember, but each year it gets a little harder to support it. I mean, come on, DU doesn't support the average freelancer. One thing that always burns me is when I drive by a DU project with the big fancy sign and then see its posted. DU just took my money (and yours) and built someone else his private honey hole.

And one more thing. You know there's something wrong with a "conservation" organization that's ever had anyone named Coors as its president.

I guess when my membership expires, I'll donate my money to a group that actually supports the little guy, like the Izaak Walton league or something. But it won't be DU.
 

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I agree tb...But only freelance hunters from the Dakotas will agree with us.Everyone else sees this as a great way to raise ducks.They don't care if it's owned by a private club as they mostly get their hunting on those anyway.Plus the more birds that migrate,the better for them.Just go to the refuge forums and read about how good a deal this is.No one disagrees except the guys from the Dakota's.
I also have decided to let my DU membership expire.I was going to send my usual $25 membership,but have decided to increase my Delta money by that $25.
 

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Ken W:

Yeah, I know you're right, ND's the only free-range hunting left anyway. 99% of the DU members can't relate to actually going out and figuring out how to hunt an area, they just do the same thing everyday and once in a while they get a shot or 2. They couldn't hunt their way out of a paper bag. I had a friend who hunted a big goose operation down in Texas a few years back. He said it wasn't hunting, it was just killing. They shot quite a few canadas, specks and whites. He thought it sucked. He said all the birds were basically starving and feeding in all the same fields all the time. He'd never go back.

I guess I'll probably do the same and get back into Delta. Maybe I can adopt a few central ND potholes with the stip that the farmer won't post them.

I knew that when DU built its Taj Mahal in Bismarck I could smell a rat.
 

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Fetch, doesn't deal in facts only innuendo and hollow criticisms. His hatred of DU is beyond pathetic and is indeed sad. The guy clearly has nothing better to do with is time. He reminds me of the Iraqi Info Minister "Baghdad Bob" spouting off his lunacy.

Trying to educate a guy who doesn't want to be educated but only wants to throw rocks at things that aren't there is also a waste of my time. I can respect anyone's opinion as long as they have taken the time to research it.

Fetch, have you ever once called DU to ask questions? Ken, tb, have you? Why not? I'd like a response.

Its also sad that Fetch wants to rip apart sportsmen. Thats really what he's doing when he repeatedly bashes DU. Now that he has decided not to give DU his $25 we won't have to hear him falsely accuse DU of whatever conspiracy theory pops into his mind. Its almost a relief.

The fact is that the land sold in SD so far has been to the SDGF, the USFWS and to a private rancher. All of it preserved forever and the land sold to the two agencys is open to hunting. Sounds really fishy doesn't it...

The lands purchased have been bought at auctions, or the landowner approached DU and said I want MY land preserved for wildlife. So the seller has indictated what he wants done with his land.

Some of you ND sportsmen (fetch and others) feel that any land bought by DU, or a ("wealthy" NR-which in ND is anyone making over $30,000 a year) was land that was alreay open to hunting, i.e. not posted. However, you have no idea what the property's hunting history was. You just know what you don't like; not that the potential for conserving a premium piece of waterfowl habitat is a good thing.

DU is not perfect and certainly makes plenty of mistakes but the good far outweighs the negatives. If you don't like them fine; but quit *****ing and move on.

In analyzing the RL program it comes down to one thing: Do you want to see some of the last stretches of native prairie grasslands preserved or would you rather see it plowed up for soybeans or round-up ready wheat? Its really that simple.

f
 

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This is a response I recieved conserning questions on a variety of issue from some that has access and knowledge of DU he has walked the walk. I do not agree with all that Du is doing nor will my extra money go to this organization as it has in the past. I will still send in my memebership.

The land sale issue aside my fear is that DU has chosen a path that doesn't put more ducks on the nest and will not protect the critical area's because the size and scope of this type of projects induvidually are not large enough to capture or excite those that do not understand what is needed to build or sustain population levels.

WP Sullivan has served at the upper levels of DU and I have found very straight foward on his views and information. I have a lot of respect for his information and even if bias he still questions things and seeks the truth.
R_G:

"I spoke to DU President John Tompke recently about the new land-sales gambit. Frankly, I asked him if it's a good idea for DU to get into the real estate business! I said "DU has lost enough credibility without selling used cars, vacuum cleaners or swampland!"

He acknowledged that DU had to do something new and radical to save those acres from 'private interests' who had motives that were not "duck-friendly" (I don't know the specifics.) The parcels were on the market and up for sale faster than the State of SD could acquire the land thru the legislative budget process.

As I understand it, the State of SD didn't have a budget sufficient to pay its share of the usual process of fee-simple acquisition, or to manage them later. So, DU went ahead and bought them, placed perpetual conservation easements on them, and will re-sell them to recoup the money it committed in the origional sale. The parcels will be now sold at audited public auction to ensure everything is aboveboard.

The conservation easements on the parcels restrict their useage to ensure perpetual alignment with the USF&W and DU conservation goals written for that project, for that region and for that flyway. The theory is that the only buyers would be parties with a now-vested interest in making the parcel as "ducky" as possible, since they cannot build on it, drain it, etc., and making it ducky-er will be the only way for the new owner to make a profit selling wetland in SD!

Second, I also raised the message you echo (re: "eggs on the nest" ) that I read in these boards. As you know, DU has always focused on habitat conservation and enhancement, not waterfowl management. Period. The underlying theory is/remains that the work to place "eggs in the nest" became the responsibility of the habitat's subsequent land-owner. The cost of managing the habitat effectively would be humongeous for DU. The paid staff (about 500, being cut slightly due to the economy) and volunteer leaders are exhausted just doing the "wetlands conservation" mission without taking on the "waterfowl propagation" responsibility.

It would be fiscally stupid for DU to compete "for the sake of competing" with states and US Fish & Wildlife agencies, Delta, etc. DU conserves/enhances the wet stuff, the others are supposed to make more ducks on the conserved habitat. This has been a symbiotic relationship that has been called "partners in conservation" since the 1970's.

Prez John indicated that in ten years, DU and others have worked to slow the hemmorhage of wetlands from 400,000 acres lost a year to just about 150,000 per year. He told me that when wetlands annual loss drops to Net+1 acre per year, then there's room to shift the organizational mission.

I'll save the "semi-official predator control" answer I received from DU for another post. This one is too long already. "

W.P. Sullivan
Colorado Springs, CO

Do not boycott DU but think about where your other money can best be used. DU has and will continue to save wetlands, but with other options now make sure that money spent is going to the area's that you want.
 

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Ron,

Thank you for an EXCELLANT post.

If I could comment on your below paragraph.

"The land sale issue aside my fear is that DU has chosen a path that doesn't put more ducks on the nest and will not protect the critical area's because the size and scope of this type of projects induvidually are not large enough to capture or excite those that do not understand what is needed to build or sustain population levels."

From DUs website:

"Just a few miles north of the Goebel Ranch, the Nature Conservancy owns the 8,000 acre Ordway Prairie Preserve and between these two properties, the U. S. Fish and Wildlife Service owns a 3,300 acre Waterfowl Production Area (WPA). In combination, these three properties encompass over 20,000 acres of prime waterfowl breeding habitat."

Its been studied and proven that large parcels of land set aside for waterfowl will produce bigtime ducks. In wet years the production on this block is damn impressive.

Thanks again for a great post.

f
 

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Dakota
The critical habitat that is beening lost in ND is the 3 acre and under parcels these have been demonstrated over and over to be the most important wetland to putting ducks on nest. Large area's of grass land and deep water do produce ducks but not in the same numbers that smaller blocks of 6 to 10 acre area's do. This information is avaliable at the USFW from Delta and and other conservation organizations.

From spending many years watching the weather and water conditions in my area I tend to agree with these studies. Retaining any type of wetland is good and DU has and is doing so, but I think other conservation organizations have focused on the area of most importance to me.

Image and concept make or break many business and organizations DU does not give me that fuzzy warm feeling it once did. I see to much division of direction from the upper to middle ranks down to the foot soldier in the field in DU currently. I know and have had access to many different people in this organization. Direction change is needed or a clearer view of the direction that DU is headed so that all understand where and to what these funds are used for.

One fundraiser I attended in WIS. the State Pres. stood up and told those present that with money raised at these events you will no longer need to travel to ND to have great hunting. We will produce and raise our own ducks. This is not nor has been in DU mission statement, nor has it ever been. The tactics to raise funds in this manner would leave most not informed to think otherwise. That is why I asked the quwstion of Mr. Sullivan and others from DU. I can site many other times also if needed.

If they are promoting raising ducks to raise money I feel it only fair that they do so. Otherwise this message should never be promoted at fundraisers. I know where and how they use our donations, I just feel that DU should be accountable for actions taken on it's behalf.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I stand by (IMO) everything I have ever said about DU

Some of their more insecure, or arrogant, or obnoxious, Brings out the worst in me & many others :D

But that along with all the SPIN & how they go after money makes me want to :puke:

They have outgrown & their usefulness & have even become questionable as to where they stand on issues (they pick & choose) & mislead the faithful that were raised on the magazine :roll:

It's a visious circle because the ones in the know won't stand up & be heard - for fear of losing some of their powerful $$$ funding - The potential for croneyism & abuse is there.

They are a Big Part of the Commercial Problems trying to take over hunting.

One more personal attack out of you sunflower seed boy & I may not be able to moderate myself :peace:

In analyzing the RL program it comes down to one thing: Do you want to see some of the last stretches of native prairie grasslands preserved or would you rather see it plowed up for soybeans or round-up ready wheat? Its really that simple.
You will go along ways :roll: with an attitude like that up here. & Yes I'd take farmers making a living over a scheme that won't change anything, or raise ducks & potentially could aid commercial shooting.

I do believe it's illegal here & should stay that way :D

If you don't like them fine; but quit b*tching and move on.
If brain washed folks like you, never brought them up - I could care less ??? but to constantly be Spining their crapola & to come here & b*itch about me is laughable - there is only so much BS a guy can take without telling the rest of the story. :eyeroll: .... :lol:
 

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Ron,

You previously stated: "It would be fiscally stupid for DU to compete "for the sake of competing" with states and US Fish & Wildlife agencies, Delta, etc. DU conserves/enhances the wet stuff, the others are supposed to make more ducks on the conserved habitat. This has been a symbiotic relationship that has been called "partners in conservation" since the 1970's."

Your off base when you say that the other organizations job is to take over after the wetlands have been conserved/restored.

Here is the Mission Statment from the DU web site: "Ducks Unlimited conserves, restores, and manages wetlands and associated habitats for North America's waterfowl. These habitats also benefit other wildlife and people."

DU's goals don't just stop after conserving and restoring, they also include managing wetlands and associated habitats. I think the big thing is that sportsman want them to do a better job of evaluating the results of these restorations, and use all the latest proven methods to increase production on the wetlands they protect.
 

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Fetch,

Hey this thread was started by you!!!! Not me. Just part of your typical, "anti-DU" spin.

I knew you would never call up DU. Your to damn scared you might learn something. I guess if you like being ignorant, and obviously good at it, why should you change your ways and learn something?

You will go along ways with an attitude like that up here. & Yes I'd take farmers making a living over a scheme that won't change anything, or raise ducks & potentially could aid commercial shooting.
So protecting it is second to possible commerical ownership? How selfish is that? If I can't hunt it, than by-golly Farmer Brown go-ahead and plow it and plant $2 wheat? It sounds to me like your all about the shooting and nothing about protecting the habitat that provides that activity. With that kind of mentality, your waterfowl season is history.

Hey, this sunflower eater is from there and farming is a no-win for the little guy. Your preaching to the choir there. Much of that land is generally stuff that is poor land for farming and should never be broken up. Alot of old farmers sitting around the nursing home will tell you that.

f
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I find it strange how if you question, or say anything negative about DU - How some folks get all upset & start throwing insults (DU Basher) & treat that person as if they are unpatriotic or evil - (Like at the Fuge)

These people seem to either have a financial interest, or relatives that either work for, or work for someone who receives funds from the money machine :roll: :huh:

I admidt I love to yank the chains of these kinds of people :poke:

But look at how they are so arrogant & condecending & end up being really poor ambassadors for the Org. ??? (they really act like they know it all) & no one should question anyhting DU says or does ??? This plus all the BS & SPIN the PR & advertising & sales crapola they put out - Makes you wonder - Also they have this I'm better & smarter than you & I make more money than you & I'm in a better class than you :puke:

This has always not set well with me - plus how they would do or sell anything & promote anything - IF - it has potential to make them money :eyeroll:

I bet 1/2 or more of their members - believe they are really alot more important than they really are (It does seem cultish to me) ???

Plus they are guilty, of bringing in people to the commercial aspects of Hunting - (I call shooters) cause they really don't know real hunting - It is Sad that this is how the majority think & act :( Seems everyone wants to be something their not (or want to pretend) they are better & more knowledgable than they are ??? DU seems full of this type :lost:

Oh well - I know I cannot solve problems for people who do not want their problems solved
 

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tmorrie
Those where not my words they where a response to questions I asked of WP Sullivan. My position has not changed but I am willing to ask questions of people that are involed currently and in the past. DU has never in it's mission statement said that they are trying to put more ducks on nest as a goal. My issue is that many from this organization in order to raise more donations state or imply that is there goal.

The choice of projects that they do are not on small scale induvidual parcels as a rule, with the exception of the Adopt a pothole program. That is why my donations and and efforts will be directed to organizations with these types of goals in mind as more ducks on nest will help keep the population from plumeting like it did in the 80's.
 

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DU doesn't have an Adopt-a-Pothole program do they?That's Delta.
 
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