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I am almost afraid to post this, but what the heck.
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Joined
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1,575 Posts
Yes,
I too am guilty. That is why the title expresses my apprehension about posting this. If you lived in NC you would travel to hunt too. Have you ever seen Deliverance?
I too am guilty. That is why the title expresses my apprehension about posting this. If you lived in NC you would travel to hunt too. Have you ever seen Deliverance?
Nice article ??? I really get tired of folks not understanding what the concerns are :roll: Heck I'm going to Canada for the same reasons How spoiled are we ??? But that is one of the main concerns - to try not to become like them.
But it is interesting - I wonder how many spend very little in ND after they get here ??? Isn't there something like 120,000 waterfowlers in Minn ??? Then add the cheeseheads :roll: :wink:
I bet much less than 10% of the 15,000 use guides & outfitters - Then consider that more & more land gets bought or leased & not available to freelancers & you can see why some areas are getting overcrowded. But money is more important than hunting - right ??? :roll:
PS ... when I rant --- no one should take it personal - I go off in general directions - IF I go off on you - you will know it. & Chris will let me know if I go too far (???) Until then I wish there were more that liked to debate & not get madeace:
How spoiled are we ??? But that is one of the main concerns - to try not to become like them.But it is interesting - I wonder how many spend very little in ND after they get here ??? Isn't there something like 120,000 waterfowlers in Minn ??? Then add the cheeseheads :roll: :wink:
I bet much less than 10% of the 15,000 use guides & outfitters - Then consider that more & more land gets bought or leased & not available to freelancers & you can see why some areas are getting overcrowded. But money is more important than hunting - right ??? :roll:
PS ... when I rant --- no one should take it personal - I go off in general directions - IF I go off on you - you will know it. & Chris will let me know if I go too far (???) Until then I wish there were more that liked to debate & not get mad
eace:I feel the need to come clean here.
I'm originally from MN (please spare the tar and feathers!)
However, I moved to the great state of North Dakota, and because of the quality hunting and fishing, I don't plan on moving away anytime soon.
I completely understand why hunters from MN travel to ND, most of the time it isn't worth setting up the decoys in MN. If you want a quality hunt, you have to follow the concentraions of game.
I wonder, if the drought conditions persist, if this could significantly shift the migration eastward. Possibly us ND residents will be traveling to MN for a quality hunt! We better be polite to our eastern neighbors.
I'm originally from MN (please spare the tar and feathers!)
However, I moved to the great state of North Dakota, and because of the quality hunting and fishing, I don't plan on moving away anytime soon.
I completely understand why hunters from MN travel to ND, most of the time it isn't worth setting up the decoys in MN. If you want a quality hunt, you have to follow the concentraions of game.
I wonder, if the drought conditions persist, if this could significantly shift the migration eastward. Possibly us ND residents will be traveling to MN for a quality hunt! We better be polite to our eastern neighbors.
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OK I will bite. Of the 10K to 15K Minnesota hunters that head to ND :
1) How many are ex-ND boys heading home to hunt or are traveling to ND with an ex-ND boy ? I know I have said this before - be nice if they quantified this number - real or insignificant ??
I was back in ND last weekend and noticed that ND will vote on some financial measure to try keep more young people in ND after they finish school. The state needs to pay people to stay ?
By the way, they should have my next high school (a ND town) reunion in the Twin Cities. Would guess fewer people would need to travel since a majority now seems to live in MN or some other state.
2) How many live along the border and simply cross-over to hunt just like 25,000 ND people head to MN to fish or how many countless ND people crossover to MN to buy lotto tickets. Thanks ND for the money.
Lotto is going to the vote too in ND. Correct ?
3) Students at NDSU, UND, other colleges ? Significant number hunt as NRs or not ? Lot of MN kids go to both schools ? All of our airmen in Minot and GF. They hunt as residents or NR ?
ND is fighting to keeps it bases. Heard there was some poor accountability of spending by the committee.
I am EXTREMELY PROUD of my ND heritage, but freelance hunting seems to be just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to major issues.
ND is on an uphill battle for survival - if drought truly returns to the prairie - concern over 22,000 or 8,000 NR waterfowl hunters will be the least of concerns to most ND people. Economic collapse may be a larger concern !
1) How many are ex-ND boys heading home to hunt or are traveling to ND with an ex-ND boy ? I know I have said this before - be nice if they quantified this number - real or insignificant ??
I was back in ND last weekend and noticed that ND will vote on some financial measure to try keep more young people in ND after they finish school. The state needs to pay people to stay ?
By the way, they should have my next high school (a ND town) reunion in the Twin Cities. Would guess fewer people would need to travel since a majority now seems to live in MN or some other state.
2) How many live along the border and simply cross-over to hunt just like 25,000 ND people head to MN to fish or how many countless ND people crossover to MN to buy lotto tickets. Thanks ND for the money.
Lotto is going to the vote too in ND. Correct ?
3) Students at NDSU, UND, other colleges ? Significant number hunt as NRs or not ? Lot of MN kids go to both schools ? All of our airmen in Minot and GF. They hunt as residents or NR ?
ND is fighting to keeps it bases. Heard there was some poor accountability of spending by the committee.
I am EXTREMELY PROUD of my ND heritage, but freelance hunting seems to be just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to major issues.
ND is on an uphill battle for survival - if drought truly returns to the prairie - concern over 22,000 or 8,000 NR waterfowl hunters will be the least of concerns to most ND people. Economic collapse may be a larger concern !
I agree ND has much bigger problems. Like a aging population (especially in rural ND towns)
& Yes I will vote for the tax incentives to keep ND young adults & maybe even draw some here.
But this is a hunting site & we discuss hunting issues.
& as long as ND is still alive - I choose to not buckle under to political pressure & SPIN. Just imagine how many freelance hunters ND could eventually allow & how enjoyable it could be to live here. If the use of our assets & resources were expanded to make freelance hunting better. CAUSE THAT IS WHAT THESES FOLKS COME FOR :roll: Don't ever roll over & give up on this. It is as important as any other issue. Cause ND won't survive without people & to get or keep people we need jobs & quality of life. I think our hunting & yes even fishing will be superior to many other states for along time to come. Maybe because we are less populated & not as used & abused as most other states. We need to promote our strengths & make up for why people donot naturally migrate here. & in a small way letting ND become a pay to hunt - posted game preserve. Will never never solve the problem. But I think, many do know what we have - it is one small (population wise)incentive to return or stay.
& Yes I will vote for the tax incentives to keep ND young adults & maybe even draw some here.
But this is a hunting site & we discuss hunting issues.
& as long as ND is still alive - I choose to not buckle under to political pressure & SPIN. Just imagine how many freelance hunters ND could eventually allow & how enjoyable it could be to live here. If the use of our assets & resources were expanded to make freelance hunting better. CAUSE THAT IS WHAT THESES FOLKS COME FOR :roll: Don't ever roll over & give up on this. It is as important as any other issue. Cause ND won't survive without people & to get or keep people we need jobs & quality of life. I think our hunting & yes even fishing will be superior to many other states for along time to come. Maybe because we are less populated & not as used & abused as most other states. We need to promote our strengths & make up for why people donot naturally migrate here. & in a small way letting ND become a pay to hunt - posted game preserve. Will never never solve the problem. But I think, many do know what we have - it is one small (population wise)incentive to return or stay.
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So if you are really in favor of freelancing NR waterfowl hunters allowed to hunt in ND (in limited numbers) then listen to my screams about NR deer hunters as a legislative precedent. :******:
Hunter pressure model would have sold 22,000 licenses for 2002. NDG&F just hit the 22,000 mark on 9-19. Of this amount what will the legislature give to NR land owners and/or guides. Look at the last session and how the guides were attempting to get there cut off the top.
Right now NR land owners can get a gratis deer hunting license. Not only does this count against the 1% of the licenses available to NRs, it competes directly with residents since these licenses are subtracted off before the lottery. Now 5 or 10 NR gratis licenses in a zone may sound like a small number, but if the zone is overbid and some residents are forced to take a second choice .....
If the NR gratis land owner is a retired farmer - good for him. If it is a guy who just bought 320 acres in ND to by-pass the system shame on ND.
Right now guides can take one-half of the 1% NR licenses in a deer zone and sell them to a NR deer hunter for what they want. Most net sites show cost of a ND deer hunt at about $2500 per five day hunt. More then double what they get on a waterfowl hunter.
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO:
Get down to Bismarck next winter and make sure that if 22,000 NR waterfowl licenses are issued in fall of 2003 that :
1) Hunters with guides DO NOT GET A LICENSE FIRST . An automatic license through the outfitter will not be tolerated. All NR hunters should get their license just like the freelancing hunter. By chance, first to call, lottery, etc...
2) NR land owners do not get gratis or priority either. If they do, the out-of-state land buyers will swarm into ND. I guess if I was a small town realtor I know what I would call my local senator on.
3) Finally, every year since I have been old enough to watch bills move through the ND legislature, a NO Tresspass Bill has been entered. Do not let this sneak through.
Good luck Fetch.
Maybe Chris can start a lobbiest fund to pay your hotel bills and someone is Bismarck can take you fishing on the MO river system after a hard days work. :beer:
Hunter pressure model would have sold 22,000 licenses for 2002. NDG&F just hit the 22,000 mark on 9-19. Of this amount what will the legislature give to NR land owners and/or guides. Look at the last session and how the guides were attempting to get there cut off the top.
Right now NR land owners can get a gratis deer hunting license. Not only does this count against the 1% of the licenses available to NRs, it competes directly with residents since these licenses are subtracted off before the lottery. Now 5 or 10 NR gratis licenses in a zone may sound like a small number, but if the zone is overbid and some residents are forced to take a second choice .....
If the NR gratis land owner is a retired farmer - good for him. If it is a guy who just bought 320 acres in ND to by-pass the system shame on ND.
Right now guides can take one-half of the 1% NR licenses in a deer zone and sell them to a NR deer hunter for what they want. Most net sites show cost of a ND deer hunt at about $2500 per five day hunt. More then double what they get on a waterfowl hunter.
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO:
Get down to Bismarck next winter and make sure that if 22,000 NR waterfowl licenses are issued in fall of 2003 that :
1) Hunters with guides DO NOT GET A LICENSE FIRST . An automatic license through the outfitter will not be tolerated. All NR hunters should get their license just like the freelancing hunter. By chance, first to call, lottery, etc...
2) NR land owners do not get gratis or priority either. If they do, the out-of-state land buyers will swarm into ND. I guess if I was a small town realtor I know what I would call my local senator on.
3) Finally, every year since I have been old enough to watch bills move through the ND legislature, a NO Tresspass Bill has been entered. Do not let this sneak through.
Good luck Fetch.
Maybe Chris can start a lobbiest fund to pay your hotel bills and someone is Bismarck can take you fishing on the MO river system after a hard days work. :beer:
I think that is a very real example of how our Legilature & NDG&FD has fell asleep.
Also how the ND Guide Assn. has been very sucessful (in the past) getting what they want.
You see when it comes time to introduce bills - All resident sportmen assume the NDG&FD are there protecting their interests, or pushing things that benefit us, the tax paying hunters. But remember they are not Political :roll: unless it effects their depts. budgets & programs near & dear to them. (Sure they are one of the Best in the Nation) but they have not been all we think they are. (& they admidt it) & unless there is a Director that gets Brave & Bold & has strong feelings on some of the same issues we do - then it ain't going to happen from them.
Who has spoke up (lobbied) when bills are introduced - the ND Guide Assn. & recently the Sportman Alliance & some Farm groups & a few experts, either from, or brought in by the NDG&FD. & sadly I think the Legislature, in the past, has thought of the ND Guide Assn. as being ND's best hunters & authorities on all things hunting & what they think is good must be good for all hunters. :roll: & now we have all learned the regional reps to the NDG &FD are not really intouch with what is going on, or what could be done. Plus they are lame ducks & need to be replaced. But how are they replaced ??? Appointments from the G&F Director, or the Govenor ??? & would we get really good - thinking - open minded & fair people - that are not afraid to brain storm things & say what they think, or just more of the same ??? :******: I feel this group is dominated by good ol boys that basically support their county commisioners. & really are not true resident (Freelance) Hunters.
I am hoping the Sportsman Alliance is building support - but they, thanks to negative lobbying by the Guides Assn, have had major set backs in credibility. & had nearly all NR's turned against them. & I don't know if were (all Hunters) any stronger now than last session??? What we need is another way to rally our side & tell the truth to groups that have only heard one side. We need a Legislator that sees our concerns & will carry the torch & write the bills & know how to lobby & get things passed. We need to be pro-active instead of always reactive.
I think what has taken place the last year, has got alot of peoples attention. But I'm not sure we are anymore organized, or prepared to fight & win any battles - So huntersasurus may be gathering south of Devils Lake & is being surrounded by wolves after all ??? :eyeroll: ???
Also how the ND Guide Assn. has been very sucessful (in the past) getting what they want.
You see when it comes time to introduce bills - All resident sportmen assume the NDG&FD are there protecting their interests, or pushing things that benefit us, the tax paying hunters. But remember they are not Political :roll: unless it effects their depts. budgets & programs near & dear to them. (Sure they are one of the Best in the Nation) but they have not been all we think they are. (& they admidt it) & unless there is a Director that gets Brave & Bold & has strong feelings on some of the same issues we do - then it ain't going to happen from them.
Who has spoke up (lobbied) when bills are introduced - the ND Guide Assn. & recently the Sportman Alliance & some Farm groups & a few experts, either from, or brought in by the NDG&FD. & sadly I think the Legislature, in the past, has thought of the ND Guide Assn. as being ND's best hunters & authorities on all things hunting & what they think is good must be good for all hunters. :roll: & now we have all learned the regional reps to the NDG &FD are not really intouch with what is going on, or what could be done. Plus they are lame ducks & need to be replaced. But how are they replaced ??? Appointments from the G&F Director, or the Govenor ??? & would we get really good - thinking - open minded & fair people - that are not afraid to brain storm things & say what they think, or just more of the same ??? :******: I feel this group is dominated by good ol boys that basically support their county commisioners. & really are not true resident (Freelance) Hunters.
I am hoping the Sportsman Alliance is building support - but they, thanks to negative lobbying by the Guides Assn, have had major set backs in credibility. & had nearly all NR's turned against them. & I don't know if were (all Hunters) any stronger now than last session??? What we need is another way to rally our side & tell the truth to groups that have only heard one side. We need a Legislator that sees our concerns & will carry the torch & write the bills & know how to lobby & get things passed. We need to be pro-active instead of always reactive.
I think what has taken place the last year, has got alot of peoples attention. But I'm not sure we are anymore organized, or prepared to fight & win any battles - So huntersasurus may be gathering south of Devils Lake & is being surrounded by wolves after all ??? :eyeroll: ???
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Carlson always puts a bunch of most-favored resident hunter bills on the docket, but is approach is often too extreme and he is from Fargo.
No matter what you say - IMHO :::: Fargo is a love / hate thing with much of ND. Everyone will shop and play there, but do not tell the rest of us how to live our lives.
He is too "special interest". Need compromise and small town appeal.
You need a small town ND home boy from say Harvey, Dickenson, Rugby, Casselton. Rural in nature. NDSU or UND educated. Knows hunting & fishing and maybe farming ??? Guy can listen and speak to all types of people.
No more whining - that has already been done and heard.
No matter what you say - IMHO :::: Fargo is a love / hate thing with much of ND. Everyone will shop and play there, but do not tell the rest of us how to live our lives.
He is too "special interest". Need compromise and small town appeal.
You need a small town ND home boy from say Harvey, Dickenson, Rugby, Casselton. Rural in nature. NDSU or UND educated. Knows hunting & fishing and maybe farming ??? Guy can listen and speak to all types of people.
No more whining - that has already been done and heard.
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