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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ohh my ohhh my...lookee here at them polls...

This article was on the front page HUGE Headline on cnn.com

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/22/cnn.poll/index.html

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- By a two-to-one ratio, Americans blame Republicans over Democrats for the financial crisis that has swept across the country the past few weeks, a new national poll suggests.

That may be a contributing factor to an apparent increase for Sen. Barack Obama over Sen. John McCain in the race for the White House.

In a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey out Monday afternoon, 47 percent of registered voters questioned say Republicans are more responsible for the problems currently facing financial institutions and the stock market, with 24 percent saying Democrats are more responsible. One in five of those polled blame both parties equally, and 8 percent say neither party is to blame. The poll also indicates that more Americans think Obama, the Democratic presidential nominee, would do a better job handling an economic crisis than McCain, the Republican presidential nominee.

Forty-nine percent of those questioned say Obama, D-Illinois, would display good judgment in an economic crisis, six points higher than McCain, R-Arizona. And Obama has a 10-point lead over McCain when it comes to who would better handle the economy overall.

These numbers seem to be affecting the battle for the presidency. Fifty-one percent of registered voters are backing Obama, five points ahead of McCain, who is at 46 percent. McCain and Obama were tied at 48 percent apiece in the previous CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey conducted September 5-7.

Obama's advantage, while growing, is still within the poll's sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

Where did Obama make his gains?

"In two core McCain constituencies: men, who now narrowly favor Obama, and seniors, who have also flipped from McCain to Obama," said Bill Schneider, a CNN senior political analyst. When including people most likely to vote, the results are pretty much the same. Among likely voters, Obama has a four-point lead, 51 percent to 47 percent.

"The economy has always been considered John McCain's Achilles heel, and the CNN Poll of Polls started to show an Obama edge in the middle of last week -- just as the financial crisis began to hit home for many Americans," said Keating Holland, CNN's polling director.

A couple of other factors in the survey appear to contribute to Obama's slight rise and McCain's slight drop in the polls. Fifty-three percent of those questioned say McCain, if elected, will mostly carry out the policies of President Bush, who remains extremely unpopular with most Americans. Bush's disapproval is up three points from the previous CNN/Opinion Research poll.

The survey also indicates Obama's recaptured the "change" factor. Just after the Republican convention, Obama's lead had shrunk to eight points when voters were asked which candidate would be more likely to bring change. His lead is up to 14 points in the new poll.

The margin of error on that question was plus or minus 4.5 percentage points.

Another factor could be McCain's running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin. Thirty-five percent of those questioned have an unfavorable opinion of her, up 8 points from a previous survey. And two-thirds believe she and her husband should testify in the Alaska investigation into the firing of a state official. :eek:

"Change has always been Obama's strong suit, but McCain and Palin clearly made inroads into that issue during the GOP convention," Holland said. "Palin, in particular, was seen as an agent of change when she made her first appearance on the national stage. That may be changing now."

The poll also sheds more light on how Americans feel about the financial crisis. Twenty-two percent are frightened by the crisis, with two-thirds concerned. Eleven percent say they are not worried. Most Americans think that the programs to deal with the financial crisis currently being worked on by Congress and the Bush administration will be unfair to U.S. taxpayers, but they think those programs will help the economy.

Six in 10 think the federal government should step in and address the financial crisis, and 37 percent say the government should stay out. But when it comes to last week's bailouts, support slips to 55 percent, and given the concerns about how future programs will affect taxpayers, it's conceivable that public support for the plans that Congress and the administration are working on could be even lower.

The survey comes out just four days before McCain and Obama face off in the first of three presidential debates. Will the debates make a difference? Probably, since the poll finds that 14 percent of Americans say they haven't made up their minds yet.

The CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll was conducted Friday through Sunday. One thousand and twenty Americans, including 909 registered voters and 697 likely voters, were questioned by telephone.
Looks like every single bullet point I've hammered on today is exactly why folks are beginning to take a "different" look at the McCain campaign...
 

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Ryan, who was it that demanded the lending agencies make home loans easy so that it was "fair". Come on now be truthful. Does that sound like a conservative, or a bleeding heart?

See, I care more about reality than the polls.
 

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It just so happens that February 2004 was when the then-venerated -- yes, venerated -- Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan uttered this famous analysis: "American consumers might benefit if lenders provided greater mortgage product alternatives to the traditional fixed-rate mortgage."

in 2005 McCain said it was a dangerous idea....case closed!

answer......
Alan Greenspan.....kept rates low and suggested Fannie and Freddie make the American dream available to low income folks......now, twist it for us ryan, 'cause i know you can! :beer:
 

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This might be slightly off subject, but definitely along the lines of the Republican's being "blamed"....

....but did anyone else see Barney Frank's statements over the weekend? He had ample opportunity to do just that (blame the Republicans) but instead he used his time to explain how the bailout is not a bad thing, and could actually be a money MAKER for us. I'm not NEARLY smart enough to weigh in on that, but what struck me was that I cannot ever remember him agreeing with anyone I actually liked before ?????????

I guess they can find bipartisanship when they want to.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Csquared said:
This might be slightly off subject, but definitely along the lines of the Republican's being "blamed"....

....but did anyone else see Barney Frank's statements over the weekend? He had ample opportunity to do just that (blame the Republicans) but instead he used his time to explain how the bailout is not a bad thing, and could actually be a money MAKER for us. I'm not NEARLY smart enough to weigh in on that, but what struck me was that I cannot ever remember him agreeing with anyone I actually liked before ?????????

I guess they can find bipartisanship when they want to.....
Agreed. I saw that interview too... they also had another member of congress on.. trying to remember who...

both of them agreed in principle, but they were worried about giving the execs any kind of exit compensation or something...
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Csquared said:
Yep.....that was the one.

I think the other guy was Dodd.

What in the heck are we doing watching the same channel ?????????
We agree on more than you realize or think ;)
 

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The GOP is to blame, alhough the Dems are willing accomplices the GOP had control and Bush never saw anything that should be vetoed??

Bush is a huge disappointment on his unwillingness to veto pork, the republican congress is a hugh disappointment for creating tons of pork.
 

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Well I should have known it was too good to be true, but at least I followed my instincts and remembered that when something smells like crap you gotta keep checkin shoes until you find it!

I knew nothing short of a young boy could keep Barney Frank from blasting the Republicans every chance he got, so I looked into why he and Dodd were so uncharacteristically positive over the weekend.

It seems they were 2 of the top beneficiaries of campaign contributions from Fannie Mae when it was headed by Franklin Raines, who was appointed by Bill Clinton in 1998. Let me quote an article in my local paper tonight....

"Some people warned us (of this pending crisis). In 2005, Fannie Mae revealed it overstated earnings by $10.6 billion and that it didn't really know what was going on. The Bush administration pushed for reforms, but those efforts were rebuffed by Congress, with Democrats Barney Frank and Christopher Dodd taking point, because Fannie and Freddie have spent millions in campaign contributions."

The article quoted Senator Phil Gramm when he called the practice in question "a vast extortion scheme against America's banks".

I believe McCain himself is on record as being against the process, although I believe he took campaign funds from them also, albeit much, much less.

I would be interested to see any contradictory info from a credible source biased to the other side, and I am looking for that now, but for now, at least, I believe I have a much better understanding of why Chris and Barn were so positive.
 

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Bobm said:
The GOP is to blame, alhough the Dems are willing accomplices the GOP had control and Bush never saw anything that should be vetoed??

Bush is a huge disappointment on his unwillingness to veto pork, the republican congress is a hugh disappointment for creating tons of pork.
true, their were pigs at the trough, from both sides of the creek!
 

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I'm not sure it is true...entirely, anyway. But I am more than willing to place blame wherever it belongs....either side of the aisle.

Anyone know where to find voting records? Can they be found online? I doubt it, but I would really like to see how our leaders voted on these issues as it went along.

.....and I don't mean "present" :wink:

What ever happened to that "line item veto" thingy ????? :eek:
 

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Self interest, greed and excess are to blame.

From the top including all those who received fat campaign contibutions and gifts from AIG and Fanni all the way to the little guy who borrowed more than he knew he could never afford to pay back in his lifetime.
 

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cbas said:
Self interest, greed and excess are to blame.

From the top including all those who received fat campaign contibutions and gifts from AIG and Fanni all the way to the little guy who borrowed more than he knew he could never afford to pay back in his lifetime.
Darn, I am going to have to agree again, but I would add to that. The little guy was stupid, but he never would have got that loan if congress had kept their nose out of it.

In chronological order this is what I think happened.

Liberals wanted loans to be easier for the poor to be "fair".
Spineless conservatives went along with it.
A spineless president didn't veto anything.
Greedy loan institutions couldn't pass it up if they thought the government would back them.
Greedy executives bled their company.
Greedy little guys with no conscience took loans they could never pay and defaulted with no guilty conscience.

Some heads should roll for this, but are the American people smart enough to put their politicians feet to the fire?
 

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Some heads should roll for this, but are the American people smart enough to put their politicians feet to the fire?
TIME FOR RICK DAVIS TO GO.... Hilzoy summarized the latest revelations about McCain campaign manager Rick Davis last night. The news is hard to spin away -- Davis not only lobbied to shield Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac from federal regulations, but we now learn that Davis' lobbying firm was picking up $15,000 a month from Freddie Mac, right up until it was taken over by the feds.

Let's pause to fully appreciate the big picture here.

John McCain argued last week that the crisis on Wall Street "started in the Washington culture of lobbying and influence pedaling." Oops.

John McCain insisted, on national television, just a couple of days ago, that Davis had had no involvement with Freddie Mac for the last several years. He added, "I'll be glad to have his record examined by anybody who wants to look at it." (Davis adopted the same line on a conference call with reporters on Monday, arguing that he's been completely detached from the housing lending giants.)

John McCain told voters last week that Barack Obama having tenuous relationships with former officials at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is scandalous, worthy of attack ads, and enough to cast doubts on Obama's judgment.

Given all of this, it's hard to see how McCain keeps Rick Davis on as campaign manager.

Indeed, McCain might even have a credible excuse. Given that McCain went on the attack over Fannie/Freddie associations, and said Davis hasn't been connected to the companies for years, he could probably argue now, "My campaign manager misled me about the extent of his lobbying work." Indeed, that's what it largely boils down to -- either Davis led to McCain, or McCain lied to us. I suspect the campaign will prefer Door #1.

To be sure, it's left McCain in a very awkward position. If he lets Davis go, the campaign will look awful with less than six weeks until Election Day. If he keeps Davis on, he looks dishonest and borderline corrupt.

It couldn't have happened to a more appropriate campaign.
 

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I hope McCain doesn't throw in under the buss. I would prefer he puts him out in front of the buss a ways so he can see it and run for a while before it hits him. :D

Seriously, that didn't do much to pick me up this morning. :( Darn politicians are all crooks. We need those term limits bad.

Every time I read something like this it reminds me of an old college psychology professor. He said society is like a mud puddle. Go out next time it rains and scoop a clean mason jar full and set it on your kitchen table. Watch it for the next couple of hours and you will notice how the scum slowly rises to the top.
 

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Anyone do a google search........Obama freddie mac fannie mae democrates.

There is more. Here are some payoffs, sorry contributions :******:

Fannie May , Freddie Mac greased the top Democrats

1. Dodd, Christopher J
S
D-CT
$133,900

2. Kerry, John
S
D-MA
$111,000

3. Obama, Barack
S
D-IL
$105,849

4. Clinton, Hillary
S
D-NY
$75,550

I wonder if this had any influence on Chris Dodd,chairman of the Senate banking committee? What were these fine Democrats doing besides nothing?
 

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Wasn't it Dodd along with our own Senator Conrad that got the sweetheart loan deals from Country Wide? Conrad was well below the interest you and I would pay on a million dollar plus home. Then he wants us to choke down "he didn't know". Tell me, how many of you out there would not know the interest you were paying on a million dollars? Then he his handlers say "oh, but he is paying it back". I wonder if he has yet?

He should be out of office. He took below market interest rates to grease whatever the lobbyists wanted him to grease and now we North Dakota taxpayers are paying for his under the table buy off.

Hey, maybe if a half dozen of us band together we could afford to buy one. It looks like they are going cheap. Perhaps we could afford the little one that likes to stick his thumb up in a Clinton imitation.
 
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