North Dakota Fishing and Hunting Forum banner
1 - 20 of 53 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,395 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
:) By far most of the discussion concerning resident and non-resident hunting involves access to land. So in order to solve this problem we need to get more access. About the only way to guarantee access for the general public and for both in and out of state hunters and also respect the rights of the individual landowner is to aquire more land that is similar to PLOTS land , waterfowl production areas etc. Everyone has access to this land, resident or nonresident, the people from Fargo, the Bismarck hunters, the Minot hunters, the ethical hunters, the non ethical hunters, the holier than thou pure hunters. The list goes on and on depending on who does the e-mailing to these talk forums. There are no questions asked and no permission is needed to hunt this land. The only thing preventing this access is the lack of funds. So who should pay for this access? We all should be willing to pay. We should encourage the increase in the habitat fees that we pay when we get our license. Habitat fees do the two things that are most necessary for a successful hunt. First and foremost, they increase the animal populations and secondly they increase the hunting opportunities(access). Charge an extra $10/license for in state hunters and $50/license for out of state hunters(this difference should bring out the e-mail). It doesn't matter if you are a waterfowl hunter, upland game hunter or big game hunter, habitat is the key and we can all do more to promote more habitat. This money should be strictly dedicated to improving habitat and access. I think that when we have some of the best hunting you can find anywhere in the nation and when we look at what we charge in licensing fees we are selling our hunting at fire sale prices every year. I think that if we can guarantee that all the moneys will be spent on improving the service to our customer(the hunters) in the form of improvements in habitat and access they will beg to pay even more (a little humor) in habitat fees. Seriously though, our Game and Fish Dept. would love to help us out but can't do it without our financial support. If we have 30,000 nonresident waterfowl hunters alone and multiply that times $50 that is $1.5 million generated for habitat and $10 times the number of resident deer hunters alone(70,000) is another $700,000 for habitat. This is $2.2 million and does not include any of the other licensed sportsman so I certainly know that I am a little on the conservative side with the dollars generated by this proposal and this should really help to improve number one, habitat and number two, access. If you aren't willing to help out with these two issues then I will be judgmental and say you are not a sportsman and are really in it for selfish reasons. This is fee hunting at it's finest and is just going along with the trend that hunting is going in our great state!!! Bring on the habitat!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
I totally agree! Increase and improve habitat and public acces and disallow any guide or outfitter from utilizing public access land. Improved access will reduce demand for guides and outfitters! Your numbers are very conservitive. If the goal was to aggressively pursue habitat and access improvements and sportsman soundly supported such an effort, land owners, business persons and sportsman would all benefit! 10,000,000 new dollars would not be an outragous goal.

Good post
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
842 Posts
Noticed a lot of PLOT land was hayed along ND HWY 14. Adjacent posted CRP land was left untouched. Granted the landowners may have been different, but :

PLOT land should be the last land hayed in an emergency. Plenty of other CRP land to hay.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,481 Posts
I agree,but I think it is difficult for the GNF to compete with guides and outfitters who offer more money.Increasing the amount of the licenses won't help this as I believe there is a set price to offer for PLOTS.This is especially true in the Pheasant areas.How about giving the landowners some kind of tax break to offer more incentive.This would also have to be made up from the increased fees as some of this tax money goes to local and schools.
Also all income from leasing has to be reported to the GNF and ND Tax Dept.Anyone leasing land must file forms with the GNF with the amount of land,cost and discription of where it is.
Guides CANNOT be allowed to use public land.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
791 Posts
As for the plot land, landowners were required to put just as much Crp into the plot program temporarily as the amount of land they hayed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
258 Posts
I believe that in the long run the programs you mentioned will save hunters a lot of money. The fact is that hunting is slowly turning into a rich mans game. Now is the time to make these decisions before its too late. 5 years from now the majority of the hunting will be pay for acess and I guarantee you that it will cost a lot more than 10 dollars a year to hunt.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
I am fully in favor of charging significantly more for out of state licenses. I would also agree that it is a good idea to "ear-mark" certain money to go toward improving quantity and quality of habitat. Your numbers look fair and reasonable and raising out of state licenses that much will probably eliminate many of the NR since it will become to expensive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
668 Posts
Ken W: What kind of BS are you trying to spread here. The Game and Fish Department "does not" collect the information about leasing land in North Dakota.

I've often thouht people post inaccurate information to try to stir things up, but to be a member of the staff, and not know if what you are posting is accurate or not, is shameful. :eyeroll:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,645 Posts
redlabel, perhaps Ken meant that those requirements "Should Be" in new legislation, i.e. the reporting of leased acres.

NDGF did do a survey of leased acres for Judiciary B this last year, with a total of about 400,000 acres leased in 2001. But that figure was only with 1/3 of the outfitters reporting. In the western tier of counties there were 86,000 acres leased by outfitters for archery. Ramsey County (Devils Lake) reported only 15,000 leased, when in fact one outfitter there leases more than that amount. Reporting was optional. The survey did not cover leaseing between private parties, such as corporations and individuals, which in the basin and sw ND, accounts for a huge number of acres. If you would like a copy of the Judicary B report, the committee will send it out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
668 Posts
I guess he should have written "should be" rather than "has to" and "should have to file" rather than "must file". It has a drastic change on the meaning of what is written.

I think I'll just have to give up posting on this board. I enjoy the information but I just don't think like most of the people here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
352 Posts
Don't like people here?Do you personally know anyone here?We're just discussing issues important to the state.If you don't like someone's opinion,why leave?

I'm not trying to start something, I just don't see any grounds for "leaving".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
668 Posts
Miller:

Didn't say, "don't like people here", said "don't think like people here"

Didn't say, "leave", said "have to give up posting"

I'm just going to turn into a lurker.

It seems that most people on this site think alike. If someone disagrees or has another point of view the discussion soon turns ugly and to name calling.

The thread about Ed Schultz and the one where an article by Ron Schirra appears are perfect examples. The threads turn into nothing but name calling and labeling because they have an opioion different than the majority of people using this site.

The Hot Topics page starts out saying "Remember to respect everyone's opinion", but it doesn't seem like too many people read it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,247 Posts
Redlabel,
We have to keep posting the opposition other wise no one would think outside the same old box. It seems to me that some on this site push their personal agenda and style as the best and only way. The things that are offensive to some i.e. ACCESS problem has been creeping along for some 35 years. I noticed it after going away to college for just two years in the 60's and coming home to hunt deer. I felt like an outsider. Fetch stated a long while back that posting only went up a week before deer season which was not a big deal. Well it sure is a big deal to the freelance deer hunter. We need to be inclusive and take in the big picture, not devisive. That is "DIVIDE and CONCOURE" is what will make us all losers. Whether your a deer, duck or dove hunter try to build a concencuss and be calm otherwise you lose your credibility and your case.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,582 Posts
You are a dinosaur :D Stick around - the carnivores need a change in diet once in awhile :D ... :roll:

Your points of view filla niche - just don't be so affected, when everyone does'nt agree with them ??? It's only the internet.

-- unless your one of the whiners ??? who can't handle real conversations online ??? & debate , or ask for clarification, or admidt mistakes & correct them online ??? The ones that have to cry & complain to admin. Cause your to weak to think & for yourself ??? Then go away you will never fit in :roll: (I did not say you were - as in it's a fact ) :roll:

Why do you folks even come here ??? or any other talk forum ??? If you want everyone to think like you ??? & act like you ??? (not have a sense of humor like you ??? ) What a boring world it would be :******: :D

I know lets change the name of this forum, to the lets all agree, or your not welcome forum ??? Where lurkers are always sitting around waiting for something to agree on ??? Ummm I think this is the HOT Topics forum :roll:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
668 Posts
I don't think I'm a dinosaur, old maybe, but not a dinosaur.

Quite to the contrary I think the dinosaurs are the people who long to keep North Dakota in a backwards state of no change. These are the people who want the rural landscape to never change but remain open to them so they can pass on the tradition of hunting to their children and grandchildren. They long for the rural people to return to the time honored value of letting everyone hunt where ever they want whenever they want. The Hunterasaurus I called them. The people who have the newest decoys, the remote controlled robo ducks, the latest blinds, 3 1/2 in shotguns, and time to spend hours driving around scouting. Then get upset if someone else finds the same spot they found, or heaven forbid someone moved a rock in the rural landscape so that something there changed from 30 years ago.

Those people need to get a reality check. Life is changing, not just in the cities, but in the rural areas as well. Will it ever be the same again? Probably not. Does life ever change? Certainly. Do we need to change with it? Of course, if we want to survive in the new situation.

Sure these points of view fill a niche, they come from a viewpoint that does not belong to the status quo here.

No whining here, I'm big enough to stand on my own two feet. I can handle the conversations, I just get a little discouraged at the amount of inaccury that is reported. The number of people who respond without reading or understanding what another person is saying. The number of people who just resort to name calling and making huge generalizations that are unfounded. I don't know if those people are mental midgets or if they are just too young to have ehough experience to understand what is being said. (I sometimes think by the spelling that they are just young.)

Why do people like me come here? Mainly for the information. I certainly don't want to join the list of people that call Ron Shcira names(an idiot, another LL Bean type, etc) or do the same to Ed Schultz (who I believe was a hero on this site when he was championing what he called pheasantgate.) No, I come for the information that is available. Information on decoys, reloading, dogs, guns, and other things that help me make more intelligent decisions. I've made enough mistakes and learned that most of my best ideas over the years have been stolen from others. It's also part of why I subscribe to more sporting goods magazines than I can read anymore. Outdoor Life and Field & Stream to be sure, but also Double Gun Journal, Gun Dog, Grays Sporting Journal and several others. It's mostly for information gathering and reading a good story, not for the talk and the chance to debate with someone that often misrepresents what you have to say.

Do you think I'm looking for Utopia, certainly you can understand that I'm enough of a realist to know that doesn't exist. I'm just looking for information to be accurate before being posted.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,582 Posts
Thats all fine & well for you ??? (and your opinion :thumb: ) But you act the same - as you don't like - when you put down peoples spelling & analogies of Mr Schara ???

You see it's all relevent & depends on your past & knowledge - right ??? I just choose to defend one side alot more than the other.

Just because your past & knowledge is different than others does not make it any better or worse than others -Does it ???

Here is a post I wrote in regards to South Dakotas waterfowl Laws.

It shows how different we are & how I have a different view of things (not ready to give up)

You SD folks have fantastic Waterfowl laws. (maybe a little low someyears on the #'s of NR's allowed ???) But I bet the quality of waterfowl hunting is outstanding. & secure to remain that way for many years to come. Not to mention how it also affects conservation to the resource.

It does seem ironic how different the pheasant laws are ???

SD is one of the States I'd love to live in ( mostly for the warm - almost tropical weather :D ) & you have done great to recruit & attract businesses & jobs to your state.

Never Never risk the temptation to let your waterfowling get out of hand for $$$.

You have secured your future, to always be unique & special. It will be a State, where you have secured your heritage, to have waterfowl hunting for all your residents & youth, as long as the birds are in sustainable - huntable #'s. You should be proud !!! of this & never let $$$ & politics or angry people try to take it away.

As hunting gets more more crowded & commercialized you will always be a Oasis of quality for your residents. In the future this will guarentee to SD that businesses & people will want to come & live there. Keeping a unique resource - that many other states had. Will eventually prove to be priceless.

I just hope we will wise up & pass laws to join you in these wise decisions. Our unigueness can be sustained & will pay off in the log run. Hopefully it is not too late up here ??? Otherwise why wouldn't we all go for the better jobs & benefits (if there really is any ???) of urban life & come here & take advantage of one of the truely unique things, we have going for us - to attrack people & save our States from just being destinations of mobile wealthier shooters, that really don't care about anthing but Me Me Me.

I know many try to spin this to be just the opposite -saying it's us residents that are selfish. Why would we want to give this away cheap & / or allow leasing & outfitters to dominate hunting waterfowl in our States ??? Give an inch & the powers that want to profit from this, will take a mile. Changing forever what you have & risk ruining it forever.
Just because were on totally different sides, of many fences ( & all have different things to learn & information to decipher.) Does that make anyone more right or more wrong than the other ??? I feel your attitudes on many things are inaccurate - But I'd tell you to your face not ask anyone to censor it ??? Plus I enjoy debate & differences & respect your right to disagree - do you ???

If you don't like it, or can't handle it - why do you keep coming into the HOT TOPICS ??? You prefer to have a LUKE WARM TOPICS page where only cool thinking & highly educated ( spelling :roll: ) police come to check up on each others spelling & grammer & weather their information is accurate to your satisfaction ??? Before they should post ??? :roll: then email Chris & check it out ???

PS.... I'm being sarcastic & challanging you to a verbal duel - ??? I can go on forever :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
668 Posts
Yes, it is all relevent, and depends on you past and knowledge. I believe some people would call that experience.

We all tend to defend the side we like best the most.

One's past or experience might make a difference if you learn from it. If the snow goose did not learn that decoy spreads were dangerous they would not have an average age of 8+ years, or know to stay in Canada. Of course that wouldn't be good for us because we would not be able to gain the experience from traveling to another country.

Ah, South Dakota, a nirvana for the resident waterfowl hunter, a bit different for the resident pheasant hunter. I enjoy both, can't hunt ducks when the water is solid, and chasing the rooster adds to my experience.
I think if you checked with the businesses in these areas they would be glad for more non-residents. I believe I recently read where the resident waterfowl hunting population has remained fairly constant at around 30,000. I personally would rather have our waterfowl regulations and their pheasant regulations if I had to live with a choice of them.

In the land of majority rule it does make a difference which side you are on. Just ask Rick Clayburgh if he wishes more people had been on his side. Or if someone doesn't know that they are supposed to stop for a stop sign do you think it would make a difference to you when they went trough the same intersection you did when you drive home tonight?

I'm not sure from what you wrote if you think I asked something to be censured, but I can assure you I did not, I only asked for people to post accurate information. I enjoy conversation, and an exchange of ideas, I do not however, enjoy a exchange when the other idea is stuck in a bucket of concrete.

Information is not accurate to my satisfaction, rather information is either accurate or not. It is difficult to have a lot of credability if someone goes around exclaiming that 2 + 2 = 5

Spelling is must for communication. Which of the following would you rather read.

The North dakoa depertmant of animalsss (that would be a typo) & fish decided to establish the nonresidnet waterfwl lisense at 30,000 for 2002

or

The North Dakota Deparment of Game & Fish will establish the non-resident waterfowl license limits at 30,000 for 2002. Applications will be processed on a first come, first serve basis.

Whether people can spell or not or give accurate information or not they generally fall into three catagories.

People who make things happen or
People who watch things happen or
People who wonder what happened.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
842 Posts
Be really careful what you wish for. SD is less of a waterfowl nirvana than you may be dreaming of:

1) SD does not sell unlimited waterfowl hunting licenses because they sell 60,000+ nonresident pheasant hunting licenses. SD game and fish makes their needed money with pheasants. Commercial hunting is run at an extreme for pheasants. Money, money, money is made on the pheasants. Access to private waterfowl hunting land may be denied to you because the cattails hold pheasants too.

2) Guides get almost all the NR waterfowl licenses they need around Pierre. In fact many of the available NR waterfowl licenses are for private land only -- thus through guides only. Not much "freelancing" going on along the big MO in SD. Residents are forced to try pass shoot geese along government land since all the corn fields above the river are leased.

3) Access to private hunting land is with permission only in SD. All land is automatically posted and closed to hunting - not sure you want ND to go this way do you ? Many of the landowners that are not leasing land still like a little cash for hunting access unless you are friends or family. Pay to hunt very common through much of the state.

All those cornfields full of mallards are left alone ... because the pheasant hunters will walk it tomorrow. Permission denied.

4) Many SD residents were economically forced to hunting pheasants on public land and road ditches. A recent SD court ruling has essentially outlawed road hunting pheasants in SD, further squeezing out the resident hunter. This battle was likely paid for and won by large commercial hunting operations. Sell out for $$$ ?????

5) SD has a lot more "PLOT" land, but fairly heavily hunted by pheasant hunters from opener on. Reasonably good hunting for the "freelancer" but I have no idea how many ducks or geese use this SD land.

6) The amount of waterfowl land is further compressed in SD because the MO splits SD almost down the middle. SD has significantly less waterfowl habitat.

7) Snow Geese at Sand Lake were short stopped by ND (Devils Lake and SE ND area) long time ago. Access to fall hunting around Sand Lake is difficult at best ...

Maybe I am off base, TSODAK you out there ? Care to comment on the quality of waterfowl hunting and land access in ND vs SD ?????
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
668 Posts
A ha, I like that post.

A case where experience and accurate information give a clear cut difference as opposed to looking at something on the surface and thinking it is better.
 
1 - 20 of 53 Posts
Top