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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ashely Tribune-July 9, 2003

WRONG AND WRONG AGAIN:
Dear Editor, On July 7 at the Ashely City Council meeting, my name was mentioned by our former city coordinator. She stated that I had terminated my membership in the local chamber of commerce because they were opposed to a proposed law to put reasonable limits on the number of non-resident hunters allowed into the state. This was news to me. First of all, I don't believe the local chamber was against the law, so in essence, she was wrong twice in one statement. Imagine that. The reason I terminated my membership was never told to anyone but my wife, and she never told anyone.
Next she stated that these proposed zones would dramitically affect these towns in this area. Becky, along with Tom Lovik, are circulateing an unsigned letter that starts out with, "get out the no visitors welcome signs".
While I don't know who wrote the letter because it wasn't signed, it seems like the chicken-little-sky-falling diatribe the advocates of commercial hunting have been repeating since this debate began.
Unlike Becky and Tom, I was at the legistative meetings--twice. I listened to the testimony and watched as the Devils Lake Chamber and outfitters orchestrated their testimony. My guess is this letter came from there.
Not once did I hear a sportsman or advocate say they didn't want non-resident hunters. What they (I) wanted was reasonable limits, numbers comparebale to a few years ago. Now they are saying this is an urban versus rural debate. That too is wrong unless Devils Lake is the urban and Ashely or Kulm is the rural. These people are motivated entirely by money. They wouldn't be happy if we trippled the number of hunters.
They tout "economic developement" as their motivation, whereas it is "econimc impact". A handful of businesses including my own, a bar and grill, receive a short term economic bump. Gas stations and motels do too. I doubt G&G has sold any balers or Feys have sold any lawnmowers or True Value has sold any washers or dryers to these visitors.
Bring in a business that will support 20 or 30 families. They will buy cars, lawn mowers or other items. They will put kids in school. They will help these communities survive. That is what the head of JDA or the city coordinator is supposed to do. Anybody can write an ad or produce a brochure to sell off our resources to make a buck.
She convinced the council to draft a letter to Gov. Hoeven to have meetings in the small towns.
Ever heard of Game and Fish Advisory meetings? They are held each year at eight rotating places. The last one was held in Kulm. It was advertised in all the major papers. There were about 30 people there. Ashely had 4. Dean Hildebrand was there as were the heads of all the respective divisions in the NDGF. If you knew more about Game and Fish issues, and less about money issues, you may have been there.
Mr Lovik stated in a preface to his letter that he dosen't hunt and really dosen't understand the issues. At least he is honest.
It comes down to to this, Tom. What would you say if the city of Wishek charged your son $100 a day to play basetball on their diamond? That would be of economic benifit to Wishek, but would it benifit your son? That is what outfitters will eventually do to my son where hunting is concerned.
If you two are hanging your hat on hunting as your big economic plan, you should both be replaced. Russ Lehr-Ashely, ND

Russ owns and operates "The Roost Bar and Grill" in Ashely, a business I will patronize every time I am there. DM
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Herb Manig letter: Game and Fish not responsive enough

The Forum - 07/17/2003

Thank you for a fine example of accuracy in editorializing!

The Forum editorial of July 8, "An end run on hunting provisions?" hit every nail squarely on the head.

The North Dakota Game and Fish Department ignored the Legislature's rejection of a zoning scheme. It is scheduling its advisory meetings in only the five largest cities making it difficult for rural citizens to voice their concerns; it is scheduling these advisory meetings at a time of the year when many farmers and ranchers cannot participate; and its zoning proposal runs counter to sorely needed economic activity in North Dakota's rural areas.

But isn't this what the public should expect from an agency that remains aloof from legislative direction, and answers only to its own entrenched bureaucracy?

Is there an answer? Yes! One answer that has been supported by certain North Dakota wildlife conservation groups and the North Dakota Farm Bureau is to convert the Game and Fish Depa rtment Advisory Committee into a policy setting commission responsive to the general public. It is an idea whose time may have come.

Herb Manig

executive vice president
 

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Good Stuff Dick!!! I will make it a point if I am around that area to stop in at Russ's place. I also read the opinion in the paper this morning from Herb and thought it was just an example of ignorance. Think about this: why would you have meetings spread out in small towns?? Does it not make sense for taxpayers to hold meetings in a central location?? People seriously can't drive to the meetings?? I drove to Casselton for one so and am wondering what the big deal is. My other thought is isn't it the Farm Bureau who is suing the state so there is no tresspass?? Do it not take taxpayer money to defend their suit??? Just my thoughts.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Herb seems to have forgotitis.
What Herb forgot to write was that the spring advisory round of meetings WAS held in eight small towns first. Herb forgot to mention the content of those meetings had the identical proposal for the new waterfowl season. Herb forgot to say that this plan came from the same governor that his organization is sueing. Herb forgot that his "commission idea" was presented as a bill last session and was overwhelmingly defeated by all sides. Herbs letter left out a few details, but then it was printed for the Fourm and what can you expect from Farm Bureau?
 

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Mr. Lehr is completely in his right to state his opininon on the hunting issue and I applaud him for doing so. I would suggest he go back and take an economics course on the trickle down effect of spending. He claims that none of the hunters have purchased any major items in his town, while this is correct on the surface, he forgets or chooses to ignore the fact that without these dollars those who do purchase the major items in his town would not be able to do so.

It is also insulting to have him say a bogus unsigned letter came from the Devils Lake Chamber. How childish can he be. What about the Fargo chamber and others who also were in favor of the death of 2048??????

By the way, why did he drop his chamber membership? Seems kind of counter productive for his community. That's too bad, a one issue member.
 

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I think Russ told the city what it needed to hear and the rest of ND for that matter. If ND wants to prosper it needs to bring in businesses that retain and hold people year round. While hunting and fishing are a way to bring in tourist dollars they are a poor substitute for brick and mortar businesses that generate money year round. No matter what anyone says that becomes the key factor in economic development of this state.
 

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Econ, now it's you that better be careful about the facts. FM chamber did not take a position on 2048. FMVCB at the request of some of the other involved organizations did, without first asking around locally, and when they heard the other side of the story following their testimony they said they would no longer be taking a position on any of the hunting bills.

We all know what organization took the lead against 2048 - DLCC. It was very apparant as the same, often very overstated or flat out wrong, data and statisitics that originated out of DLCC was simply accepted and copied by the others without any independant review or evaluation.

Is it a landowners' rights issue that DL wants to send its less than ideal water through many areas already prone to flooding, including Fargo? Maybe we all need to remember the "give a little, get a little" message.
 

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Let's put this into perspective: Alien Technologies is moving to Fargo and in the next seven years will employ up to 1000 people. The average wage for the job at the company will be over 50k and if I heard correctly will generate 9-10 million in state revenue. Now let's talk trickle down. These people will buy a house, cars, food, clothes, appliances, charity donations, so that tricles down to the business owners who spend, then down to the employees and so on. That is economic development and brings a lot more to the state then some out of state hunters. Now maybe some of these new employees enjoy the outdoors and will come out and stay at the small towns and hunt, fish, etc. Attracting people to live and work in the state should be the focus not some little outfitter.....
 

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Dan,

You are correct it was the CVB in FARGO that was in favor of the death of 2048. The water issue is a whole different animal and you as a very educated man know the two are totally unrealated.

Eric,

Perspective, yeah right, Alien really looked at Ashley, ND. They certainly would have all the infrastructure, housing and other needs to open this great business. :D

The business owners, land owners and people who enjoy living in rural ND are only trying to carve out their own living and maybe get a little ahead during good times.

No one told Fargo they needed rural ND's okay to let Alien come to their town, but it sure seems big city (population over 15,000) people ( not all ) want to tell rural ND what it can and cannot do for business. You can't have it both ways as the legislature's votes proved. It was even a FARGO representative who made sure rural ND was protected from the vultures of the big cities. :D :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Vultures?????? Econ, aren't you taking a bit hard that many small rural businesses don't support your commercial hunting position? Remember when the Hettinger Chamber of Commerce echoed the same sentiments as Russ Lehr during the Pheasantgate hearings?
 

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Econ, YOU can't have it both ways. They may not be completely same subject matters (they are actually quite similar when you add into the mix the INLET that DL wants too, to regulate the water at levels above the historical average and only four feet or so below today's level - for recreational purposes). They also have striking public policy similarities even if you only consider the outlet.

On the outlet, what is regarded as a necessary and beneficial program for some (DL region) is regarded as a real potential problem for others (the downstreamers). On waterfowl caps, what is regarded as a necessary and beneficial program for some (those that enjoy hunting and those that benefit financially from the year-round dollars created by residents who are drawn to or kept in this state becasue of hunting), is regarded as a real potential problem for others (e.g. commerce folks in the DL region).

On both and many other issues there's a reason to work things out so the concerns and goals of all affected are considered. Give a little, get a little.
 

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Econ...after reading many of these posts you people keep saying "Those Big City Sportsman"Rural people keep saying it's them against the big cities.Well guess what...if that's the way it is going to be,then everything is on the table.
As far as Devils Lake goes...I heard legislators remark..."What Outlet???"
 

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& if it ever does come down to "us against you" (I hope not) & we end up with Management / Leadership by Referal vote :roll: - I'd think we might become more appreciated
 

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KenW.

If you ever thought there was going to be an outlet from Devils Lake, then you don't us my products in moderation as suggested. We, the common people, know all the talk of an outlet is for the politicians to have jobs and something unproductive to do. If there ever was to be an outlet, then the Feds would never have spent over $300,000,000 for roads and other infrastructure. An outlet is as much of a pipe dream as there not being enough waterfowl hunting to go around.

Fetch,

Your idle threat of a referal vote is wearing thin. Either get off your butt and do it or forget it. Actually you could go to California and work on theirs if you really need a referal. :D :D
 

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I'm already married :roll:

It's not quit there yet (Need for a referal ) But it could be the bottomline :eyeroll: If & when it is used - I hope it will be well researched & covers all things, that need to be covered & is done in a way that Teddy Roosevelt & Dale Henegar, Darling & Minor & many other's will be proud of. - Do you think they would be proud of the state of waterfowling & where it's headed today ???

Time will tell ??? - Thank goodness there is a means to halt complete stupidity. Small town Tourism needs some folks that have common sense & understanding & Public Relations - Not alienate the ones who respect & appreciate them & love & admire their ability to remain rural. - The myth of Big city vs Rural has got spun so much by the commercial side - they should be dizzy by now (the truth has a way of coming out) & ND residents are savy & smarter than many give them credit for. Otherwsie we would not be as special as we are & have been since this land got settled.
 

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Dick Monson wrote "What would you say if the city of Wishek [or any little town] charged your son $100 a day to play basetball on their diamond [or do any other sort of outdoor activity]? That would be of economic benifit to Wishek, but would it benifit your son? That is what outfitters will eventually do to my son where hunting is concerned." I think that was very well put :beer: and hits the nail on the head as to what the guides are doing to all kinds of hunting in North Dakota. I think that the guides are ruining the hunting and locking up too much prime land :******: , but how do we stop that? :wink: How do we say to the land owners, you can't lease your land anymore? To relate it to the above quote, if there are children rich enough to pay the $100 a day to play baseball on this field, why would anyone ever let them play on the field for free?! Isn't it simple supply and demand economics? I don't know?!
 

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hansoni,

CONGRATULATIONS, :D YOU HIT ANOTHER NAIL ON THE HEAD:

SUPPLY AND DEMAND DRIVES IT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If anyone really want to stop the so called poliferation of G\O's, then move to a country that is Socialisitic and enjoy. There you will find out what true control and no choices are.
 

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Econ, your "free economics" model have room for commercial netting operations on DL? I could certainly find a market for a hundred or so thousand pounds of walleye and perch filets. Wouldn't do much for recreational opportunites and the dollars that go with them, but, hey, it would be really good for the commercial fisherman and select few others.

Ridiculous? Of course. Point is, our society is full of examples where a person's or some persons' opportunity to fully maximize economic opportunities is checked for the greater good. We ND's, of all people, should understand and appreciate the tremendous benefit to the state by not opperating on a free economy basis with what is still the state's largest industry.

To oppose caps because of some "free, market economy" ideological concept doesn't wash with me given how "unfree" of a market we operate in, especially in this state.
 
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