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After reading these two articles this morning (http://www.bismarcktribune.com/display/ ... /nws-1.txt and http://new.in-forum.com/articles/?id=9212) I am fed up with the small town businesses complaining about how much money the NR's bring into their economy and how the BIG CITY resident hunters shouldn't be dictating hunting policy in the state. Maybe its time we give them a kick where they deserve it, IN THE WALLET, they don't seem to understand how much money we spend all year long. How about if we make it a point to buy everything in the BIG CITY when we go fishing or to the lake this summer. Don't buy minnows or gas at the store buy the boat ramp, bring them from Fargo, G.F., Minot, or Bismarck. I'm not trying to put anybody out of business here, just want some people to wake up. These are the same people that complain about the Big CITIES having an extra 1% sales tax, maybe if we didn't buy our outdoor gear locally and mail ordered it, the BIG CITIES would have to raise the city tax to 2%. I just want ONE proponent of NR's to say "HEY WE NEED THE INCOME WE GET FROM THE FREELANCE RESIDENTS TOO"
 

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Waldo the Fargo link did'nt work here is the Bismarck story

Friday, Apr 19, 2002 - 05:00:48 AM CDT

Pothole country vocal about license caps

By LAUREN DONOVAN, Bismarck Tribune

HARVEY -- The flap over how welcome out-of-state hunters
ought to be took flight from pheasant country and splashed
in duck and goose country Thursday.

Pothole country business owners called a meeting to tell
government officials that restricting nonresidents would be a
head shot to the wetlands economy.

State Game and Fish Department officials, after months of
controversy over extending the pheasant season, is
contemplating a cutback in the number of waterfowl licenses
it sells to people who live in other states.

The request to cut back comes from resident sportsmen
groups, including the North Dakota Sportsmen Alliance of
Jamestown. No one representing that group attended the
meeting. The complaint that too many nonresidents make it
tough for residents to find hunting ground picked up during
the pheasant controversy.

Jim Walter, owner of JW Pizzeria in Harvey, said restricting
nonresidents from coming in would close hundreds of
businesses in the region and imperil $2 million in business
in Harvey alone. He figures there are 250 hunters a day in
Harvey during the prime 60 waterfowl hunting days, each one
spending $100 a day.

"It's the difference between just being here, and making a
living, those hunters coming into our businesses," Walter
said. He said he's planning to construct a $2 million lodging
and convention center in Harvey this year

A decision that affects hunting would affect that project,
Walter said.

Keith Pierson of Maddock, vice president of the Benson
County Tourism Association, said the county's lost 4,000
residents in recent decades.

"We are trying to survive. This is first time in many many
years we've had anything good happening and here's our
Game and Fish talking about caps, my god," said Pierson.

The meeting, held in a small side room in the Harvey
Armory, drew about 110 people with standing room only.

State Game and Fish Commissioner Dean Hildebrand,
barely recovered from the pheasant shootout in recent
weeks, retained his usual calm and storytelling demeanor.
He admitted the controversy sometimes sends him to bed
with the feeling of a football in his stomach.

Hildebrand said he came to Harvey to listen, to talk and
keep communication open.

"I'm not here to put anybody out of business. I do have an
awful lot of resident hunters and I think we have a deep
obligation to them," Hildebrand said.

He said ideas for how to deal with waterfowl hunting will be
finalized in the next few weeks and then talked about at
Game and Fish Advisory Board meetings around the state in
May.

Tom Bodine of Velva, said state law only requires biannual
meetings, but doesn't stipulate they be held spring and fall.
He asked Hildebrand to propose changes at the end of the
year, rather than at nearly the last minute before planning for
the upcoming season.

Hildbrand said he didn't anticipate the timing.

"This all blew up after the pheasant thing. That's why I'm
scrambling," Hildebrand said.

Brent Weninger of Anamoose, said he's president of the
town wildlife club and mayor of Anamoose.

He said nonresident hunters come and go with wet cycles.
The state's been wet, but the fact that he disked land he
hasn't touched in five years tells him it's getting drier out
there.'

"We're in an up cycle. Let's get the money from out of state,
get on it," Weninger said.

Orlin Mertz, owner of a hunting lodge at Goodrich, said he
heard Gov. John Hoeven say at a meeting last week with the
Wildlife Federation that the state probably will restrict
waterfowl hunters.

Mertz asked Hildebrand to tell the governor not to do that.

"There's too much economic impact on our small towns to
be settled by people who are only interested in hunting,"
Mertz said. "It's time for people in rural places to say, 'Now,
we've had enough.' "

When Hoeven proposed an early pheasant opener, he said
he did it to help boost the rural economy.

Randy Kreil, chief of wildlife for Game and Fish, said the
department needs to come up with the right combination of
hunters and habitat. Nonresidents were 42 percent of all
waterfowl hunters in 2000. The number of all waterfowl
hunters has been about 60,000 for the last three years, and
nonresidents have been an increasing number of those.

With indications that the wet cycle might be cycling down,
Kreil said it's time to consider the implications.

"The numbers we have now are not sustainable," Kreil said.
"Doing nothing is a decision and that decision will be made
by the governor."

Kyle Blanchfield of Devils Lake, president of the North
Dakota Guides and Outfitters Association, asked how long
the department's been talking about waterfowl
recommendations, because it appears it's only taken a few
weeks to come up with them.

"The pheasant controversy seemed like the catalyst to jump
into the waterfowl issue," Blanchfield said.

He said people are used to wet and dry cycles.

"We can fight Mother Nature, but we don't want to have to
fight our own department," Blanchfield said.

Eric Aasmundstad of Devils Lake, president of the North
Dakota Farm Bureau, said if nonresidents are limited, then
residents ought to be, too.

He said if the issue is about people -- and Kreil said the
recommendations have to do with people management, not
game -- then hunters can expect a reaction.

"What I see happening in this state, I really do believe that
the backlash by landowners will be so severe, this state
going to be posted up from one end of the state to the
other," Aasmundstad said. "It's going to be hard for anybody
to find a place to hunt if this thing keeps going on the way it
is."

Hildebrand said he wants to develop a strategy that satisfies
most people and isn't legislatively shoved down people's
throats.

"I don't want us to be at each other's throats all the time. I'd
like to put together something that has science in it that we
can bank on for a number of years," Hildebrand said.
 

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At the bottom of this article is a place to respond - I sent this to them just now

Not all Big City Residents are the enemy of small town businesses -
There are other sides to this that many are not seeing. It is being
turned into a us against them or East vs West thing. It is the guides &
outfitters & the pay to hunt people that are doing this. I invite all to
go to http://www.nodakoutdoors.com and read what respected hunters from across
the state are saying. (& have debated for sometime) Most Non-Residents
are Freelance hunters like us & agree with us. We are trying to find
solutons & point out the other side of these issues. Not all hunting
sites are the same - one of the most popular ones is supported by
comercial hunting interests & censors it's posts. So many ND Residents
are not getting all the information they need.

I suppose Redlabel will give me a hard time again :roll:

[ This Message was edited by: Fetch on 2002-04-19 09:52 ]
 

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Man or man Fetch you boys got tons of problems on your hands down there.

My experience is the NR spend their money at the bar and motel and that about handles it. They don't buy shells in any small town, too expensive. A lot come totally self contained in trailers and motorhomes so what do they contribute. Buggar all, some gas whoopy do. they still don't come close to spending in gas what I would in an average fall.

Saskatchewan and to a lessor extent Manitoba are getting into problems big time now too.

You and I both know that a ton of the NR huntes go waaaaaaaaaaay over their legal pos. limits, or stomp who knows how many ducks int the mud so they can keep shooting.

SHOTGUN
 

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Just read the article in the Forum. My blood is boiling!

Ok, first of all, why wasn't the rest of the state informed as to the meeting. When the advisory board meetings were taking place there were both sides represented. Evidently Mr. Businessman in Harvey doesn't want any opposing interests at his meeting.

Secondly, I'd like to to see hard numbers on the amount of money spent in Harvey by each NR on a daily basis. Come-on $80-100 per day by each guy...get real. They buy all shells and equipment in the BIG city. Hotels for 2-4 guys are about $50.00 total per day. You guys in Harvey must really be gouging the NR if they're layinng down $100.00 per day.

I, as a resident hunter I spend as much or more than the NR and I do it every weekend not just 2 per year. I think the people at this meeting have no idea as to what the resident dollars arethat come in as to hunting. Basic math, 30,000 NR - 2 weekends a year Vs. 30,000 residents 7-8 weekends per year. Although I would never encourage a boycot of an area, say like Harvey, maybe a couple of weekends void of ND resident hunters would show them what the resident does for them. Let them post everything they have and only let NR BIG MONEY people hunt. They'll find out in a hurry who's spending money in Harvey.

As I've posted on some other threads here, we need to find a compromise to these issues. The resident hunters aren't trying to dictate G&F issues, they're trying to protect what we already have and are suggesting that problems that have developed need addressing. The Harvey meeting, unfortunately shows, in my opinion, that the business people and the Farm Bureau don't give a damn about the resident sportsman in state and would like to see more access and opportunities taken away from them.

EVERYONE, we all NEED to be at the advisory board meetings in th future!!!!!!!!!
 

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Shotgun -

In regard to your last paragraph - I have spoke with many other NR's while hunting in ND and I believe most of them are "Hunters" not "Killers".

I would not dream of hunting with anyone doing this kind of SH*T and would report anyone if I seen it happening :******:

Dr. Bob
 

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$100 a day, no way in my group $50 for hotel divided by 3= 16.50 a person, maybe $15 - 20 dollars per person to eat and drinks(can be done for a lot less too) and lets say in my gas guzzler $15 a day for gas. thats $50 dollars total. I buy my ammo and hunting supplies in Jamestown, Fargo, grand forks or Devils lake what ever is closer. But I also don't have unlimited resources so I try to stay on a budget.

Fetch, be careful when you say NR's agree with you and what is beeing posted on this board. There are alot of differences in solutions, and I think if alot of the other 30,000 NR would have alot more.

How can Hildrebarnd say he has awful of Residents hunters to answer to maybe 2000 at the most.

Man you ND Residents have a problem on your hands, to get a win win solution for everyone is going to be tough, its not just a fight of Residents VS NR's, its Residents vs Residents.

I will say this that these business owners aren't fighting for a NR's hunting, they are fighting for themselves and if they say they are making money off of us then they are. How much who knows. This will be fun to watch.
 

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just read the forum article

"They complained about city-dwelling resident hunters dictating hunting policy in the state, and predicted landowners could mount a serious backlash of posted land."

"Others in the room said urban resident hunters' complaints about lack of places to hunt is pure fiction. They said many landowners report they are never asked for access by those hunters."

enough said, via the words of ND own residents. You guys had me going that these ideas and thoughts weren't out there.
 

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I just had the pleasure of reading the Forum article.

"Hildebrand told the 100 people at the Harvey armory there is going to have to be compromise between resident hunters who want limits and those who welcome nonresident hunters."

I dont understand how resident hunter views get twisted, and then reported in the forum. We are not asking for a cap for the mere reason of limiting access of freelance hunters.

The biggest problem that resident hunters have is the leasing of land by guides, and also NR hunters coming into the state and personally buying up tracts of land. This is the main reason that a suggested cap on NR came about, not because urban dwelling residents want to keep NR out of the state.

The cap was proposed as only one solution, its not the final answer. Other thoughts need to be conveyed to the G&F also. Like many of you have said, we need to attend the advisory meetings and put our two cents in.

Maybe we should call for a meeting with Hildebrand in Fargo, and call it "Concerned City Dwellers propose answers/solutions, as apposed to just slinging mud"

[ This Message was edited by: muskat on 2002-04-19 12:30 ]
 

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but, by putting a cap on NR's "the city dwelling hunters" are saying we don't want them to come. Plain and simple. if the "city dwelling hunter" wants to limit guides and leases well then limit guides and leases.

[ This Message was edited by: cancarver on 2002-04-19 12:44 ]
 

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I've been keeping track of every receipt and penny I've spent while hunting/fishing this year. I advise others to do the same. In the end, I would like to show how far one's dollars go in the state.

Thus far, I've spent more than I had ever imagined....and I haven't even dropped a line out of the boat and it's not even the fall.

[ This Message was edited by: Chris Hustad on 2002-04-19 13:39 ]
 

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So do we get a private meeting with Mr. Hildebrandt also??? Shotgun I agree with the first part of what you said, however I haven't seen guys from out of state shoot over their limits. The people we have hunted with have been a good group of guys. I have a problem with Cancarver's statement about the G&F only listening to 2000 resident hunters. I wouldn't think they wouldn't be doing all this if only 2000 people responded. There are more than 20,000 people that live in ND. Fargo/West Fargo has what 130,000? What really gets me is this attitude of lets suck'em dry before the drought comes and make as much as we can. This thinking is so shortsighted. So piss off resident hunters, gouge NR's, then a drought comes for a few years and nobody comes to hunt. Then what?? Just one last thought: if a guy from out of state buys land in ND and then they limit licenses to NR's and they can't come back to hunt the land they own, then what?? hmmmm, sounds like a way to keep land from going out of state.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Field Hunter, I am not suggesting a long term "boycott" but if we could somehow have a short term one, maybe some of those businesses would see how important the city dwellers are to the profits too. Everybody should read and reread Muskat's comments, I think this is to the point. Look at pheasant hunting in S.D., I don't have any numbers, but I bet in the last 20 years the number of NR's has quadrupled and made it impossible for a freelance resident to hunt, THIS IS WHAT MOST OF US ARE CONCERNED ABOUT HAPPENING HERE.
 

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I agree with Muskat about going to the meetings in May and bring others. If people go fish rather than going to the meetings then don't whine about the state not doing anything. I challenge everyone to go to a meeting and keep track here so people are putting their money where their mouth is. I will also have to say that there are already some areas that I won't spend a dime in. It's like going to a restaurant and having a horrible meal, do you go back??? no. If an area doesn't want your business then don't go back and encourage others to go to another town for dinner etc.
 

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OK Cancarver - only informed / intelligent Non Residents that care about ND & the resource & that have common sense & understanding.

Don't try & spin your selfish / uninformed attitude to me. Or you will be no better than most others getting drawn into this mess.

I still have faith that most can & will see thru all the special interest & just mean spirited people - that are the real minorities in all this.

This should'nt be about Money or what NR's think. Cancarver you are just like the guides & outfitters trying to muddy these things at every turn.

How do you propose to deal with the guides & leasing ???
 

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Cancarver,
I wish that we had the power to limit guides and outfitters. That is why I said get out to the meetings, show your views, and give support to help correct the problems.

Chris, you are so right when you say the Forum is one-sided. On most issues they will only report the side that they want to take. What kind of journalism is this anyway??

Eric, you also are more than correct. It seems that everyone wants to prosper while the hunting is abundant. What about when the dry cycle hits? Duck #'s will fall, and no NR will want to hunt the state. So the rural communities prosper for another two years. Then after that, since no solution to the large number of hunters and soon to be lack of ducks(which is what NR come to ND to hunt) has been implemented, the rural communties(who rely so heavily on NR revenue) will die off?????? This of course is only a possibility, but I fear it to be the truth.
 

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Eric in your estimation how many resident hunter want limits?

my estimation
1000 memebers of Sportsman allaince

1500 members of NDWF which some probable don't hunt, and are also members of Sportsman allaince.

Estimate by G&F that only 7,000 waterfowl hunters hunt more thatn opening weekend.

1500 or so should up at your first round of meetings.

How many members do you have on this site?

500?

how many of those are residents?

I don't think I am too far off.

I don't think they are saying residents don't spend money but the boost of NR money is what they are after. Yes it is very shortsighted, thats why I don't want them representing me and my interests.
 

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Cancarver,

Please gets some sources to all of these numbers you always throw around. You can't just throw numbers that you think are accurate and take them as fact. I asked you that the last time you threw up these numbers, and you've still yet to get a source.
 

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I recall giving those sources in the last post.

First round of meetings I added them up.
sportsmans allaince and NDWF I spoke to them and got membership numbers. And the G&F estimate was posted the the other thread.
 
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