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Flap over duck licenses may be taking wing again
By RICHARD HINTON, Bismarck Tribune

A guide and outfitter group is worried that the North Dakota Game and Fish Department will implement caps on the number of nonresident duck hunters in specific zones this fall, but such caps aren't the choice of Game and Fish, an official said Wednesday.

Kyle Blanchfield, the president of the North Dakota Professional Guide and Outfitters Association, has circulated an e-mail warning members that "NDGF ... is hinting at instituting the HPC in these zones ...."

Not true, Roger Rostvet, deputy director for the Game and Fish Department, said on Wednesday. "We have no plans to input something like that," he said.

HPC is short for "hunter pressure concept," a formula devised by Game and Fish that crunches the number of resident duck hunters, the number of nonresident duck hunters and an index of available wetlands to come up with an annual cap on nonresident duck licenses. The hunter pressure concept was part of SB2048, which drew crowds for and against during the 2003 legislative session. The bill didn't survive a close House vote. That bill was one of several in the session that pitted supporters of more liberal nonresident hunting regulations against residents seeking sharper nonresident restrictions.

What Game and Fish is looking at, Rostvet said, is establishing three new zones for nonresident hunters. One, identified as zone 3, would cover most of the state, while two smaller areas would address "areas of concern in the south-central and mid-central parts of the state." They would be zones 1 and 2, but the boundary lines still are to be established.

While nonresident duck hunters this fall will be limited to a 14-day license, the plan, which is still preliminary, would cut hunting time to seven days in one of the two small zones, Rostvet said. The plan would allow nonresidents to hunt throughout zone 3 for 14 days. A nonresident's other option would be to hunt in zones 1 or 2 for seven days and hunt in zone 3 for the other seven days, or they could start in zone 3 and finish in one of the smaller zones. Either way, the idea is to use the zones and the number of days hunted as the nonresident hunter management tool, Rostvet said.

The small zones would be in areas where there is concern over nonresident versus resident hunters. "We want to see if this management scheme is workable," he said.

Blanchfield said he and other guides in the NDPGOA could work with the nonresident hunter zones and the time frames. "But a cap put the fear of God in us," he said, comparing a such a possibility to a "triple whammy."

Rostvet wouldn't rule out limits on nonresident hunter numbers in the two small zones, however. "It's possible there would be limits in zones 1 and 2, but it would be an upper limit," he said.

A limit or cap by any name is what worries Blanchfield and the state's other guides and outfitters. Blanchfield owns a resort and runs a guide service in the Devils Lake area.

Blanchfield said he spoke by telephone with Rostvet on Wednesday. "He (Rostvet) expressed they are considering limits in both zones (1 and 2), 7,500 total in both zones," Blanchfield said.

Rostvet said that figure was off the top of his head when Blanchfield asked for a hard number.

"I looked, and it's a little closer to 8,500," he said. "That's the number of nonresidents who hunted in that area last year. If we were to go with what was there last year, that's what was there last year."

Blanchfield, however, sounds like a man waiting for the other shoe to drop.

"I'd bet you anything on the dollar that a limit is a huge part of the thing," he said. "If they want to put limits on hunters, they have to lay their cards on the table and be responsible for the backlash that comes with it."

Rostvet said a nonresident hunter cap may be necessary because of the hunter influx into the two small zones after Game and Fish draws attention to those zones by identifying them as prime duck-hunting country.

Blanchfield has the same concern. "These zones are the hot spots, the place to go," he said. "It exacerbates the problem. Psychologically, people get panicky (and have to hunt there). It's like a run on the market."

Still, Rostvet said the ideal scenario would allow the zones and the seven-day time limit be the management tool for nonresident hunters. "Not caps," he said.

Blanchfield's e-mail asked NDPGOA members to contact Gov. John Hoeven's office and express their concerns. Ron Rauschenberger, a policy adviser in the governor's office, said they had received some e-mails. Hoeven has the last word on what final shape the 2003 proclamation takes.

Don't expect any definitive word soon on caps or the 2003 regulations, however. The waterfowl proclamation typically is among the last ones published. Since waterfowl are species included in the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service first has to lay out a framework for the states to work within when setting season dates and bag limits. "That usually happens in July or August," Rostvet said.

The 2003 duck season will be a new ball game for all parties concerned. This will be the first year nonresident hunters will have to buy separate upland and waterfowl licenses. Each will cost $85. Last year, an out-of-state hunter could buy an upland license and add a waterfowl license for another $10. Nonresident licenses last year also were capped at 30,000.

But Blanchfield still worries. "Behind closed doors, a cap is a huge part of this thing," he said, "but maybe I'm paranoid after the session and everything."
 

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It is at least a little more of a honest story. - But they fail to give all the history & facts leading up to why there should be caps

Also this zone proposal is weird & how did they come up with it - As if DL is not a Hot spot ??? & in many ways overcrowded ???

Plus no thought on the water situation ??? - Trust me everyone & their brother knows where it is wet & where it is dry & where the ducks are going to be - Heck I could have told you last year :roll:

But it seems thay picked high traffic areas with the least guides to try this on ???

I will predict if the # of NR licenses goes much above 30,000 this year - there will be problems like never before :eyeroll: Maybe then someone in charge will do the right things - But I doubt it :******:

Try spreading them out in more zones & by dates (weeks they can come - a 1st 2nd 3rd choice - with limits - Caps (or management) what ever you want to call it.

Bottom Line that needs to be spread, on as many sites as possible - GO TO CANADA it is No Hassle & Better hunting & with the exchange rate a much better deal.

Funny how they (guides) get their concerns on TV & Radio & in the papers - & they get the ears of the Govenor & Legislature & officials at the G&FD - they are so far ahead of us in the battle of PR & BS. we may never catch up :eyeroll:

Without a strong Waterfowlers Assn. we will always get beat out of real possibilities & they will spin things, as compromise, to get their way.

Where the Vast majority are Freelance hunters - that do not pay - (that come & use these areas) But yet the Guides want a open # of possibilities to fill their schedules ??? Or even worse expand on Pay to hunt. :******: WHY & HOW by leasing up all the lands they can get. & getting landowners Mad at the residents so the only good stuff left is theirs. & it used to be mostly for SOB hunting - But if they had to depend on that they would go broke for sure - They are now after as much of the duck lands as they can get. :******:

Please remember - People in small towns & weather you live in the west -central - North or South, part of the State - the ones filling your motels & resturants & bars are Freelance - Not Pay to hunt - brought in by guides

So why let them dictate the rules & Laws & management - Why even 50 %of the possible changes (as in Compromise) ???

Call the Govenor & anyone who cares & will listen to hear the TRUTH !!!

Thanks for the tip on the article
 

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I'd laugh if most NR's decided to Boycott ND this year - With all the Goofy changes & Lies & Truths & weather etc etc. & folks trying to figure out which is which (If it were not so sad - I'd Laugh & maybe I can get over it & learn to laugh about it ???)

I think the Govenor & G&FDirector & Tourism & Hospitality folks & Guides & Outfitters Have pooped in their own nests :lol: They all have greedy & selfish reasons for keeping the #'s high & have not been honest with either NonResidents, or Residents, or the Legislature (But they compromised on the commercial sides to all this :roll: )

You get what you give :wink:

But it may take a few years of further decline, of what we once had, But then it may be to late to reverse the good thing we had, but let slip away. :-?

I will always BLAME Govenor Hoven & MR Hildebrand - what a sad Legacy
 

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Middle of May and Kyle is starting the PR machine already. I do hope that as crunch time nears we can get the push to send a message of our own to Gov. Hoven.

This is my opinion but we need to keep the pressure on and not let this get decided without our input. Dan B and others have put great effort into these issues and a muddled mess may work in our favor two years from now but I would prefer to decide where the front line is instead of the opposition drqing the line.

With the summer fun getting into full swing we need to be prepared to make sure our voice is heard. Contact of your local people and other efforts should start soon.

What about the Tree
 

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I still get my hometown paper, and when I saw it today the breakdown of liscences for NR waterfowlers was in there for this fall. It is absolutely amazing the differences that can exist between two neiboring states. Read especially the talk about commercialization along the Missouri River. Sounds familiar doesnt it???
NONRESIDENT WATERFOWL UNITS AND LICENSES SET FOR 2003

PIERRE - The Game, Fish and Parks Commission has finalized South Dakota's nonresident waterfowl
licenses for 2003 with one significant change from what had been proposed.

Representatives from Brule and Buffalo counties earlier requested that Unit 100X, the 3-day, private land only,
nonresident license, be made available in their area.

"After receiving public input on the matter, the GFP Commission chose against including the two counties in
unit 100X," said Assistant Director of Wildlife George Vandel. "Local duck hunters expressed concerns that
commercial interests would increase and possibly reduce the existing duck hunting opportunity for residents on
private sloughs and potholes if the additional nonresident licenses were allowed in the area."

Nonresident waterfowl units, license numbers and provisions for 2003 include:

Unit 100A - 200 special licenses valid for entire season in Union, Clay, Yankton, Bon Homme and
Charles Mix counties.
Unit 100B - 3,775 special statewide licenses valid for 10-consecutive days.
Unit 100C - 2,000 early fall Canada goose licenses valid for entire early season in Brown, Marshall,
Roberts, Day, Grant, Clark, Codington, Deuel and Hamlin counties.
Unit 100D - 25, 10-day licenses with two Canada goose tags for Bennett County, valid Oct. 25 to Dec.
21.
Unit 100X - 1500 fall 3-consecutive-day licenses valid only on private land in the counties of Potter, Sully,
Stanley, Hughes and Lyman.
Unit 100Y - 500, 3-day licenses in Brown, Marshall, Roberts, Day, Grant, Clark, Codington, Deuel and
Hamlin counties.
Unit 100S - 10,000 spring snow goose licenses valid for entire conservation order.

Nonresidents can purchase no more than one waterfowl license prior to Nov. 1, but may purchase a second one
from Nov. 1-30 if licenses remain. Licenses remaining after Nov. 30 can be purchased on an unlimited basis.
Nonresidents are allowed to apply for both an early fall Canada goose license and one of the regular fall
licenses.
 

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Resident waterfowl hunters should take a lesson from the NR. Appreciate what we have here and say thank you to the landowners that allow you to hunt at all. I would guess that if all this foolishness keeps on there may not be anywhere to hunt. Remember the landowners control access. I certainly do not have a problem with limiting NR waterfowl hunters based on biological need of a speicies, but they cannot be limited just because some residents feel they should be. There are plenty of places to hunt just get out there and ask. You could have shot a cannon off here last fall and not worried about hitting anyone. In other words, in this area of excellent hunting there were no hunters. :******:
 

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erica, welcome to the forum. I have to question your stated position a bit. Remeber that the citizens of the state write the game regulations. Wether we agree an individuals or not. Period. As a farmer myself I have had no bad experiances with hunters, nodackers or NRs. However unlike your area, we get a lot of pressure because there are no caps worthy of the name. That is the situation in much of the eastern and southern parts of the state. While you want more NRs, the rest of us would take less. Why not ask the governor for a zone around Devils Lake and fill it up with NRs? You will be happy, we will be happy. More for you-less for us. A number of people from your area have said there is no hunting pressure there. Maybe there is a reason. What is it? Maybe you need a poster of your own design that would bring hunters in? I post with a "YES HUNTING-THANK YOU FOR SUPPORTING AGRICULTURE". While it is nice to be thanked by hunters, this my way of thanking hunters for the farm program, diaster aid, and the many monetary perks that come to us farmers from the public. Thanks should flow both ways, don't you agree?
 

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I try and read these topics and keep and open mind. But when I see comments like "Go to Canada" as solutions to a very difficult and two sided problem, I have to respond.. Fetch I guess that option is available to you also or maybe MOVE TO CANADA!! I live in Minnesota and have watched our lake shore properties bought up by NR's including a great number of North Dakota residents..Would I like less competition for fishing and property values, of course..But this is the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, not North Dakota of America or Minnesota of America. In a perfect world there would be enough hunting land and game for everyone!! But since there is not, we have to make due and not try and become isolationists... And yes moving to Canada is an option for everyone!!!
 

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The issue has been debated from both sides of the issue. Isolationism is not the goal nor do most that I know dislike the NR traveling to hunt. Most do not realize that limiting NR also limits the expantion of G/O which are and will ruin this state for all huntings. Take this issue and apply it to your favorite lake that you fish. In most lakes if 20 percent of the lake holds 90% of the fish and someone leased that 20% leaving you the area that held only 10% would you be so quick to fault those that where trying to protect your and my option to pursue the area that held 90%. This is not an exact analogy but one that illistrates the issue at hand.

Unlimited numbers will bring more and more leasing forcing those that cannot pay or choose not to on the limited area that hold game. We then will lose young and begining hunters as parents wll be unable to give there children a quality experience in the field.

Thank you for your interest and response, I hope this gives you a better understanding so that you do not assume that most involved are not anti-NR.
 

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I have this FEELING :roll: :lol: that the new person who will be watching over the commercial side will have some effect on the leasing situation.

At least it will not be as easy as it has been & things should start being done on a more professional basis

I also have faith that maybe the enforcement side of things - (In ND) are about to become a higher priority & I'm all for that. No longer will we (or should we) see things happen that disgust us all. (at least I have faith that it is about to be strengthened)

It really is time to see the NDG&FD become not only one of the best at providing G&F but protecting them from the rise in people coming to harvest them.

Would'nt it be great to maybe even see the next DIRECTOR, maybe come from Enforcement ???

I think the time is right ??? (maybe a few years off- but when it happens I sure pray & think we need a strong person to support & expand this most important part of G&F -> ENFORCEMENT!!! (who better knows the concerns & truth of what is happening in ND ???)- especially if it is going to be managed by folks who don't know what they are doing :roll: (especially if those people are in the Legislature & Govenors office) :eyeroll:

But time will tell :-?

A stong enforcement Division along with an expanding PLOTS program & who knows maybe even DU will find a way ??? to help the deadlock in the USFWS buying & expanding wetlands - Like WPA's again ???

& maybe if this new DU scheme catches on :roll: ND should start
Budgeting for or spend some reserves on buying these back ??? Before the commercial sides to this do ???

Plus I hope the Sportsman's Alliance can continue to grow & and be admired & respected as group of people in the know & that care about ND above personal profits & just more people, at any cost & to help be there to remind the Government what is the right things to do. A Spade has been called a Spade & can no longer be able to manipulate & SPIN things to go their way - for real selfish reasons that really does'nt help their regions as much as many think.

All this would help keep ND a great place to Live & hunt - Don't ya think ??? & should'nt that be the main goal ???

There is Hope - Patiences Fetch Patiences :-? :beer: :wink:

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erica nice 1st post :roll: go back & read past topics. That tired / Lame thinking has been used already - If you want to be be a serious part of the debate - learn that real hunters (Residents) mastered & use those skills all the time & the vast majorty do thank landowners & appreciate them & try to develop relationships - But most Freelance hunters don't just go the same few places over & over forever :roll: we hunt / scout / go where the best concentrations of birds are & spend lots of money on travel & gas & lodging

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joel5898

I don't get your beef ???

But I have been thinking about Canada & why more from here (USA) don't go up there ??? & it finally dawned on me - I Bet most of the people that come to ND to hunt have had DWI's or DUI's (or other infractions with the Law - considered Felonies up there) & CAN"T GO TO CANADA & hunt ??? --- But we sure want those people to come here & spend money & filling our bars, huh ??? :roll: :eyeroll:
 

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1) I have come to realize that : NIMBY pretty much says it all for QUITE A FEW on this site.

2) Here we ago again FETCH. Let's repeat ourself. All NRs get lumped together as rich bastards that have no repect for ND game laws and limits, etc... talk about tiring. Now MOST are drunken rich bastards with no repect for ND game laws and limits. :sleep:
 

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Did anyone else have the same problem following Fletchings last post as I did.
Talk about incoherent babble, take the marbles out of you mouth for the love of God.

Now, getting back to the topic. Kyle Blanchfield is one of the people in this world that I have an enormous amount of respect for when it comes to the outdoors, right up there with Tony Dean, my grandfather, and my dad.
Kyle may not agree with you all the time and you may disagree frequently him, but he fights for what he believes is right and he does so with out calling names and belittling others, Fletching maybe you should take some notes.
I know I throw a few zingers at others once in a while and that is an area where I could learn something from Mr. Blanchfield.

As far as Kyle's quotes in the article, I need to ask a question.

As a US citizen, doesn't Kyle have the right to speak his own mind and fight for his own economic interests.......... yeah, I thought so

I agree with erica also, I haven't ever seen an overcrowding problem in our area as there are so many places to hunt and so much waterfowl.

cootkiller
 

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Hey, I see fetch is now no longer a moderator: At first I thought, great I won't be afraid to post then I see Erica post a very nice first post and the great "member" fetch blasts her:
I have truly tried to find good info here, I check it daily to see what is worth arguing about today but with guys (the minority) who frequent this site who are obviously educated, doing nothing but making us average joe hunter/fisherman feel intimidated:
Chris you are the Web master and I think you have a great possibility of success but the real shame is you have some on the site who are scaring off everyone else.
I enjoy seeing that the web master participates in the forum (a rarity on other boards), I enjoy seeing people sharing info, but really I check this more to learn good ways of insulting people.
I wish you all knew me because I hunt/fish 330 days a year< I hope to make it in the outdoor world someday, but man, with that being a goal I hate to be too hateful and mean to everyone who has an opinion different then mine.
I know I am not making a lot of sense but as I have said in every one of my posts I see potential in this site, especially as a site for the younger generation of hunters and I see 5 backwards steps for each forward: Just say they are observations from an observer.
Thanks Guys
 

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Hey MNhunter2003,

I appreciate the feedback, and I like to take every opinion into consideration, especially on the site.

I guess there's dozens of forums on the site, this just happens to be the hot topics. Well, like you said....the topics in here can get pretty HOT! There can be a lot of emotions stirred up at times, I guess that's what happens when important issues get threatened...even to grown men. ;)

With that being said, you will find plenty of hunting/fishing talk going on outside the hot topics forum. Debating issues isn't for everone.

But I will agree with you in some respects on Erica. Although I don't really agree on everything she's said, I don't really know her or really her side....just one paragraph of thoughts. I hope she can clarify this to continue her thoughts, and that agreeable or not, they are allowed as her opinion.
 

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OooooOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooo afraid of little old me - I'll send ya a PM that has my picture in it if you ask nice & it includes my world famous motto

I am not going to waste a lot of words trying to re-explain stuff agin for the sake of arguement :roll:

But coot my last message has some significant (subliminal) content --- You have to watch for that from me - I'll either wack ya between the eyes with a 2X4 or plant a seed & maybe even fertilize & water it for some :lol:
 

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1) I have come to realize that : NIMBY pretty much says it all for QUITE A FEW on this site.

2) Here we ago again FETCH. Let's repeat ourself. All NRs get lumped together as rich bastards that have no repect for ND game laws and limits, etc... talk about tiring. Now MOST are drunken rich bastards with no repect for ND game laws and limits.
1)Whats a NIMBY ??? Is that a insult - Be careful I can now complain to the Moderator too.

2) I bet there is more truth to that than you imagine - Canada is so much better & unspoiled than all of the USA - & with the exchange rate a person is either nutz or restricted to not go there - What is so upsetting about that - It was a free tip from or true expert who has been there done that (especially in ND) :wink:

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Hey Coot write a book on all your regional heros & see how well it sells :roll:

I have this Feeling that something is about to happen that will give your buddies more to think about -

Say how much barter is there in commercial waterfowling ??? & are there rules to follow as far as IRS etc. ??? Now that the commercial side has rules they can be enhanced every Legislative session you know -

Coot do you have financial interest in the cove resturant ??? If so you should be honest & say so - It would explain your angle on your thoughts.

We have legal rights to ask questions & have opinions too don't we ??? & to protect what has been a special way of life - up here as hunters ??? & many of us feel obligated to try & tell the truth & bring out all sides to things (If we choose to) - so whats your point ???

I don't see much new in all this only a few trying to see if they can now make folks dizzier with there SPIN on things :roll:

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Hey, I see fetch is now no longer a moderator: At first I thought, great I won't be afraid to post then I see Erica post a very nice first post and the great "member" fetch blasts her:
I have truly tried to find good info here, I check it daily to see what is worth arguing about today but with guys (the minority) who frequent this site who are obviously educated, doing nothing but making us average joe hunter/fisherman feel intimidated:
Chris you are the Web master and I think you have a great possibility of success but the real shame is you have some on the site who are scaring off everyone else.
I enjoy seeing that the web master participates in the forum (a rarity on other boards), I enjoy seeing people sharing info, but really I check this more to learn good ways of insulting people.
I wish you all knew me because I hunt/fish 330 days a year< I hope to make it in the outdoor world someday, but man, with that being a goal I hate to be too hateful and mean to everyone who has an opinion different then mine.
I know I am not making a lot of sense but as I have said in every one of my posts I see potential in this site, especially as a site for the younger generation of hunters and I see 5 backwards steps for each forward: Just say they are observations from an observer.
Thanks Guys
"nice post"......... right :roll:

what are you scared of ??? Boo !!!

??? Man talk about syco babble :roll: :lol: Grow up & come back when your a man
 

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I have to disagree slightly with what people have claimed as little or no pressure in the Devils Lake region. I grew up in the northern end of the lake region. I know a lot of the landowners up there, and my father is a landowner in the lake region. I have seen a lot of pressure, and it has been getting worse every year. I still can find a place to hunt, since I still have ties to the area through my parents that still live there. I run into a lot of hunters up there. Being able to go out and shoot a limit of birds is not all hunting is about. I can go out and shoot a limit, but if I have to deal with people constantly while I am out hunting, my enjoyment goes down dramatically. I go out there to get away from people and the hectic pace of everyday life, not have to compete with people by getting to the favorite slough or field by 3 in the morning to beat the other 6 vehicles that were scouting the night before. To me this ruins the enjoyment out of hunting.
 

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Amen Muzzy. I can have a great day of hunting, even if I come home empty handed. All it takes is some seclusion, watching the world come alive and the chance to work some birds.

Now, a day with a limit of birds can be an awful experience if:

-- you can't sleep the night before because you are worried about someone else taking your spot

--you get into an argument with another party over who was there first

--some idiot sets up too close and skybusts your swinging birds

--your trailer tire wears a hole in your new fiberglass layout boat (different story :roll: )
 

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I will leave the personal insults to MRN and a few others.

NIMBY

N - not
I - in
M - my
B - back
Y - yard

NIMBY is a simple gut reaction people have to change (whether it is a positive or negative change does not often matter).
 

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No Fletching the only interest I have in the Cove is that I bartend there and hang out after hunting or fishing.

I still disagree on the crowding issue in my area, I just don't see it.

Reminder: Take a Kid Fishing Day is this saturday leaving from woodland resort, no charge.
I can't wait, I love taking those little guys out, it rekindles my own love of the outdoors to see the joy in their eyes when they pull in ANY type of fish.

cootkiller
 
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