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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Biden: Wealthy Americans Must Pay More Taxes to Show Patriotism
by Associated Press
Thursday, September 18, 2008

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Democratic vice presidential candidate Joe Biden says that paying higher taxes is the patriotic thing to do for wealthier Americans.

Biden says he and Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama want to "take money and put it back in the pocket of middle-class people."

Under the Democrats' economic plan, people earning more than $250,000 a year would pay more in taxes while those earning less - the vast majority of American taxpayers - would receive a tax cut.

Biden told ABC's "Good Morning America" on Thursday that, in his words, "it's time to be patriotic … time to jump in, time to be part of the deal, time to help get America out of the rut."
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/0...icans-must-pay-more-taxes-to-show-patriotism/

Here we go again. Dems' want more tax's to pay for someone else's crap. How utterly sickening..."more patriotic"......more pathetic :eyeroll:
 

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How many people here would have to pay in to this tax? How many here would benefit?

Just curious?

Does anyone here pull in more than $250,000 a year?

He's talking about the top 1 or 3% (can't remember the %) of tax earners.

This "plan" won't affect anyone. Most of those who earn in excess of $250,000 won't notice a $5,000 increase in taxes folks.

I'm astounded to hear that people decry this as another Dem tax increase...
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
R y a n said:
How many people here would have to pay in to this tax? How many here would benefit?

Just curious?

Does anyone here pull in more than $250,000 a year?

He's talking about the top 1 or 3% (can't remember the %) of tax earners.

This "plan" won't affect anyone. Most of those who earn in excess of $250,000 won't notice a $5,000 increase in taxes folks.

I'm astounded to hear that people decry this as another Dem tax increase...
So it is ok because it is not "us"? :eyeroll:
 

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R y a n said:
How many people here would have to pay in to this tax? How many here would benefit?

Just curious?

Does anyone here pull in more than $250,000 a year?

He's talking about the top 1 or 3% (can't remember the %) of tax earners.

This "plan" won't affect anyone. Most of those who earn in excess of $250,000 won't notice a $5,000 increase in taxes folks.

I'm astounded to hear that people decry this as another Dem tax increase...
My folks notice. I hear some kind of "F"ing democrates comment. I'm with them. "F"ing democrates giving away our money!
 

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The point isn't that who it affects, it is that it is taking from the haves that have worked hard to get where they are, or were born into what someone else worked hard to get.
 

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Don't forget the democrats always lie about taxes also. If you make 40,000 or something like that you will pay more taxes. Obama's tax plan is to tax nearly everyone more. Someone had a schedule of his plan posted a while back, I'll try to find it.

Those who keep repeating $250,000---- don't believe anything else they tell you either.
 

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Does this tax also effect business owners in which the company makes $250,000 and the business gets taxed. Because that is what it was before. Then if that is so.....I get nailed by this tax.

I am a 1/4 owner in a company.....so i would get taxed even more. Then the tax breaks they are talking about would not off set this business tax.

So small business owners would get hit. They don't make themselves $250,000.....but the business could be.

But I look at it like this.......look at history. Old England wanted to tax and tax more. What happened......people started a revolution. Now to compare the two is a far fetch. But it is becoming more and more of a reality. Just think about it.
 

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R y a n said:
Does anyone here pull in more than $250,000 a year?
Not yet.

--------------------------------

Plainsman said:
Don't forget the democrats always lie about taxes also. If you make 40,000 or something like that you will pay more taxes. Obama's tax plan is to tax nearly everyone more. Someone had a schedule of his plan posted a while back, I'll try to find it.

Those who keep repeating $250,000---- don't believe anything else they tell you either.
Plainsman, Is this the graphic you are referring to?

 

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SiouxperDave25 said:
Plainsman said:
Don't forget the democrats always lie about taxes also. If you make 40,000 or something like that you will pay more taxes. Obama's tax plan is to tax nearly everyone more. Someone had a schedule of his plan posted a while back, I'll try to find it.

Those who keep repeating $250,000---- don't believe anything else they tell you either.
Plainsman, Is this the graphic you are referring to?

Yes Plainsman. This is the graphic I also assumed folks were talking about, as this is the one that has been put out as a reference.

Now given this graph folks tell me... how does this affect you?

I guranantee I can tell you for a fact that those making over $300,000 all have assets that are being sheltered, and this increase does NOT affect them.

All this is is a BIG bunch of grandstanding at its finest.

Ryan
 

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They hide in plain sight. They promise to raise taxes and tell everyone the other side will raise taxes. There are many that will blindly believe them. I know the arguement will be they are only going to tax people making in excess of $250,000 a year or some other arbitrary amount. What they don't tell you is that there are a lot of small business owners that fuel our economy that fall into the advanced tax rate. They are too small to file under a business and assume those costs so they file as individuals. Many of them struggle to make ends meet and more taxes will prove to be too much of a burden
 

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g/o said:
Does anyone here pull in more than $250,000 a year?
Hell yes and thats just from outfitting (just kidding)

Hey Ryan what about Obama increasing the capital gains, that will effect most of us.
:lol: I need to get into guiding quick then!

I agree G/O that the Captial Gains increases are ridiculous.

Obama is out in left field on that idea. It will never pass in its current form. There is no way they'll allow the types of penalties/taxation he is requesting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I see I am getting no answer.....

As with most that think like this, it is ok as long as it is the other guy getting the shaft and I am reaping the benifit.
 

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LuckCounts said:
What they don't tell you is that there are a lot of small business owners that fuel our economy that fall into the advanced tax rate.

They are too small to file under a business and assume those costs so they file as individuals.

Many of them struggle to make ends meet and more taxes will prove to be too much of a burden
I'm sorry but this is NOT a reason to oppose the plan.

If those small business owners are crafty enough to survive (as 80% of small businesses fail in their first fiscal year), they will undoubtedly incorporate to protect their risk of exposure (liability).

If they assume those costs on their own, that is simply a part of doing business, and I'd argue they are trying to scam by with some form of a tax loophole to avoid paying into payroll or business taxes.

I speak from personal experience here, as I setup a Corporation for my consulting company a few years back, and had to pay in both sides of Federal Withholding, as I was my own employee under the corporate shield.

Anyone who doesn't incorporate is foolish, as the tax benefits to amortize assets, write off business expenses, and shelter your personal assets makes it a no brainer.

If those folks "struggle to make ends meet", it is likely they are not good business managers, and deserve to be working a 9-5 vs owning their own business.

My .02

Ryan
 

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MSG Rude said:
R y a n said:
How many people here would have to pay in to this tax? How many here would benefit?

Just curious?

Does anyone here pull in more than $250,000 a year?

He's talking about the top 1 or 3% (can't remember the %) of tax earners.

This "plan" won't affect anyone. Most of those who earn in excess of $250,000 won't notice a $5,000 increase in taxes folks.

I'm astounded to hear that people decry this as another Dem tax increase...
So it is ok because it is not "us"? :eyeroll:
I see you are looking for an answer to this?

Go take a look at siouxperdave's example above again.

What to you mean it is not "us"? It is not an "us" vs "them" equation. This is about a fundamental change in how we are taxed in general, and how revenue is generated. He essentially wants to change the formula by which goverment gets to tax folks.

Are you scared of change?

This has nothing to do with "taking from the haves" and "giving to the have nots"... UNLESS you are one of the haves (> $300,000/yr) giving to the have nots (<$299,999)

I don't think most people here have proper perspective on who qualifies as a "have" vs a "have not" in this new tax plan.

Those of you making less than $40,000 a year are all receiving a ton more benefits from society than you pay in. Let's call an apple an apple here. The grandstanding going on over taking from the rich to give to the poor analogy just doesn't work anymore.

It always amazes me when folks put down Democratic ideas to ensure that certain social aspects of society are taken care of, even simple fundamental things. You all benefit from many everyday things that you take for granted or "enjoy" that are a direct result of a social program. I really don't think many know how good they have it compared to if it didn't exist.

The problem with Democrats, is that the fringe of the group try socializing TOO MANY things beyond the basics. THAT is the folks you should be fighting, not a blanket mandate to block all social change.

Hope you understand where I'm trying to come from...

Thanks

Ryan
 

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Ryan,
Stop trying to dig into someone elses pocket. Who do you think eventually pays for taxes? It always comes down to the end user. It's a cost of doing business and it will be passed on and you and I will eventually pay it. Every time there is a decrease in taxes there is an upturn in the economy. When taxes are used to redistribute wealth, it kills business. There is so much talk about taking someone's money and putting it into programs. Let's have socialized medicine, housing for those that can't afford it themselves, food programs, the list goes on. Everytime we accept these programs from the government we get closer to a communist state. I'm not saying we shouldn't help the needy, and I do through various charities, I'm saying the government shouldn't take my money and distribute it to someone else that is able but not willing to do what it takes to make ends meet. I struggled as much as anybody, and worked 4 jobs to make ends meet. Wasn't an easy existence, but what I have is mine and I did it without government intervention. the thought that government is trying to put a limit on what you can make is a sickening thought. Why would anyone try to achieve more and more in life it they get punished for it in the end. All the "evil" corporations employ a lot of citizens. And we wonder why outsourcing has become so prevalent. Open your mind, get off of the big 3 Television (not news because they don't report they provide opinion) stations, look for impartial reporting, and keep America free.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
R y a n wrote:

How many people here would have to pay in to this tax? How many here would benefit?

Just curious?

Does anyone here pull in more than $250,000 a year?
These three lines right here equate to the "us" mentality you are showing.

He's talking about the top 1 or 3% (can't remember the %) of tax earners.
So again your words refer to the point that it will not matter to "us" as we don't fit that bracket.

This "plan" won't affect anyone.
Well, which is it? "...won't affect anyone" or top 1 0r 3%? Here is a R y a n 'gaff' that all have become so proud of posting. In the same post you say it won't affect anyone and also that it will affect some. Going to point out your own 'gaff'?

Most of those who earn in excess of $250,000 won't notice a $5,000 increase in taxes folks.
Spoken like a true Democrat. They "won't notice it"..nice, real nice. that is the American way isn't it? 'They won't notice it missing anyways because they have so much so lets take more' mentality is sickening to me.

I'm astounded to hear that people decry this as another Dem tax increase..
Ummm... maybe I missed something in one of my 3 business degrees but I think that , "Biden says he and Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama want to
"take money and put it back in the pocket of middle-class people."
means that it is an increase.

Before you go on one of your 5 paragraph rants and tell me that I am wrong and people are reading it wrong and it is all smoke and mirrors and Rep B.S.; I am just quoting you and Biden here...no one else. it is what he said and you wrote....
 

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This has nothing to do with "taking from the haves" and "giving to the have nots"... UNLESS you are one of the haves (> $300,000/yr) giving to the have nots (<$299,999)
What kind of circuitous thinking is that? Good grief talk about ---- I can't even begin to explain my disappontment in your lack of logic. It takes nothing from the have unless you make over $300,000???? I worked for a salary and as I am retaired now I am far below $40,000 and I guarantee you I will pay more taxes under Obama. What are you saying Ryan, people that make more than $300,000 are not worthy of consideration.
You mentioned you had incorporated for a better tax shelter. You must be able to hide a lot, so the Obama tax plan will give you money.
There is obviously something you don't understand Ryan, people that make over $300,000 are just as much a human as you are.

I don't think most people here have proper perspective on who qualifies as a "have" vs a "have not" in this new tax plan.
I think you need to seriously take some time and think about this Ryan. Your perspective is disturbing.

Those of you making less than $40,000 a year are all receiving a ton more benefits from society than you pay in. Let's call an apple an apple here. The grandstanding going on over taking from the rich to give to the poor analogy just doesn't work anymore.
BS. However, if I do get all these benefits your evidently promissing me who is going to pay for them MSG Rude? Doesn't that bother you? I don't know about you Ryan, but I have enough pride not to take money like a beggar. These are actuall real people paying for it Ryan, not some robot not worth our consideration. How disappointing that there are any people out there that think this way. :eyeroll:

Maybe we could just get a cup and some pencils and stand on a street corner. No different than a common beggar. Ya, the government is magic, just gives you money that you think your entitled to. I'm nearly speechless.

Sorry, my dignity doesn't have a price on it. I hope someday you understand what a freeloader is. I am certainly happy I am not leaving children that think this way behind. God help America.
 

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Ryan Said,
I'm sorry but this is NOT a reason to oppose the plan.

If those small business owners are crafty enough to survive (as 80% of small businesses fail in their first fiscal year), they will undoubtedly incorporate to protect their risk of exposure (liability).

If they assume those costs on their own, that is simply a part of doing business, and I'd argue they are trying to scam by with some form of a tax loophole to avoid paying into payroll or business taxes.

I speak from personal experience here, as I setup a Corporation for my consulting company a few years back, and had to pay in both sides of Federal Withholding, as I was my own employee under the corporate shield.

Anyone who doesn't incorporate is foolish, as the tax benefits to amortize assets, write off business expenses, and shelter your personal assets makes it a no brainer.

If those folks "struggle to make ends meet", it is likely they are not good business managers, and deserve to be working a 9-5 vs owning their own business.


[/quote]

Looks like you think you have all of the answers. You want to tell every small business owner how to run his/her business. Speak of their foolishness for not following your plan, and tell them they are not intelligent enough to follow their dream. No wonder you're on the soap box for Obama. Of course it is a valid reason and small business owners are not the only ones that will fill the pinch. Don't be a hater because someone has been more successfull than me, you or anyone else for that matter. Everyone has an equal chance to be successful in America, and you want to beat down the ones that achieve something. What about the people that work hard for 20 years before they finally achieve whatever the benchmark is going to be set at? Just because someone struggles to make ends meet doesn't mean they are not good business managers. They might be fantastic and lesser individuals would have lost their business (and, by the way, laid off the people that worked for them) many years ago.
 
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