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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So did anyone else catch this happen last night right at the end?

What almost happened? At first I thought he might have a sudden heart attack right on stage?

This moment flashed by in an instant right after last night's presidential debate ended-John McCain, heading the wrong way off the stage, making a crazy expression in apparent self-mockery. I wasn't sure if I'd seen what I'd seen. But the camera doesn't lie:



And with slightly more tongue extension:



What the heck? :lol: Ya gotta hand it to him for trying to poke fun at himself though...

although I'm not so sure that was the right moment at the right venue to be doing that..

But I could be wrong.
 

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Why does that picture remind me of Howard Dean a few years ago??? It's just missing a little HHUUHHH and it would be perfect!!!
 

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Probably got a whiff of Obama
 

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One thing for sure I bet the rest of the world hopes like hell Obama gets in to. I doubt any of the smaller countries like Iraq etc... want an old war horse running the show. It's better for them to have somebody who will bend over the barrel for them and take it like a man bent over a barrel does. :lol:
 

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The dude's a little awkward... I remember thinking that 8 years ago when I saw him make his "I'm like Luke Skywalker attacking the Death Star, and they're firing at me from all sides" speech a couple of times during the primaries. I think it's a lot like Nixon vs. Kennedy when you get them side by side.

To be fair, it's not hard to catch a single frame of somebody looking pretty goofy. Remember that pic of Kerry not catching that football? Mild social awkwardness rates about a .00001 on my "stuff-I-care-about-o-meter".
 

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Considering his arms were repeatedly broken, he was stabbed thru his shoulder with a bayonet and suffered vicious beatings on a regular basis for 5 years and was hung by his arms for hours again repeatedly as a prisoner of war and hes 72 years old hes doing very well and I bet is a pretty tough old dude.
 

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A big sign of weakness mentally is lacking composure and getting very defensive. Seems to me Mcain is a very defensive person. Im still somewhat undecided but I do not like it when Mcain acts defensive and like a whiny kid.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Bobm said:
Considering his arms were repeatedly broken, he was stabbed thru his shoulder with a bayonet and suffered vicious beatings on a regular basis for 5 years and was hung by his arms for hours again repeatedly as a prisoner of war and hes 72 years old hes doing very well and I bet is a pretty tough old dude.
Totally agree Bob

I guess myself (and others above this reply) were referring to his demeanor and how he carries himself at all times. I ask myself which one of these candidates would make the better figurehead for our government as we try to get back in the good graces of the world?

Which guys looks like he has bearing and presence worthy of a President based on watching the antics in the debates?

I'll leave that up for all of you to decide. Many folks look at these moments and criteria when deciding on issues, rather than all the minutia of every single platform issue.

It was fascinating and striking to watch them interact .... I'll give ya that! :D
 

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Definitely agree Ryan. A few big things that make my decision easier in all of this is voting for somebody that composes himself, has a voice that gets your attention, and a big thing for me somebody that doesn't make brash decisions simply on emotions.
 

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I ask myself which one of these candidates would make the better figurehead for our government as we try to get back in the good graces of the world?
One like George Washington who has fought hard for our country. and undoubtedly will remain strong in the face of adversity. One the World will respect for his knowledge of military actions and Wars. One who has suffered and has seen the very darkest of other countries customs. A man who will be feared as well as respected.. you know like our Fathers. Now tell me which one that is.
 

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Nixon took a huge hit in 1960 because compared to Kennedy he wasn't as smooth, and just didn't look "Presidential". It was the first televised debate, and Nixon just didn't get the medium. He looked jittery, and awkward, and he was wearing a tweed suit, which looked like he had been rolling around in lint on black and white TV. JFK had done his homework. He correctly guessed that how you looked was going to be just as important as what you say. Apparently, people who heard it on radio, had an entirely different opinion about who "won" from the people who were able to watch it on TV.

It seems petty, but it really does matter to a lot of people who equate relative smoothness to being "presidential".
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
buckseye said:
I ask myself which one of these candidates would make the better figurehead for our government as we try to get back in the good graces of the world?
One like George Washington who has fought hard for our country. and undoubtedly will remain strong in the face of adversity. One the World will respect for his knowledge of military actions and Wars. One who has suffered and has seen the very darkest of other countries customs. A man who will be feared as well as respected.. you know like our Fathers. Now tell me which one that is.
If that were the only criteria one uses as a yardstick, than no doubt a landslide would occur.

Unfortunately our world has become so much more complex.

So many issues today cross over and have influence on other just as important issues. If you look at the U.S. economic crisis, you see that it spills over into the rest of the world financial markets too... Which has an impact on the price of oil... which has an impact on OPEC manipulating the markets to continue maximizing profit by reducing supplies... which then causes international tensions and businesses worldwide suffer further.. which causes political upheaval in the Middle East... etc etc etc..

A President wears so many hats, that if he is seen as just an old war horse who is prone to losing his temper, getting overly emotional, and flying by the seat of his pants in a "Maverick" decision making style, that type of person is prone to making erratic, hasty, and potentially irreversible long term harm to our country's safety and prosperity.

The game of diplomacy is not won in days, but in months and years. Other countries are very cautious and prudent when it comes to matters of diplomacy and international trade and business. If we have a President who makes flash gut check decisions on his own (proven by his choice of VP, amongst others), that could prove disastrous to our efforts at maintaining diplomatic relations with countries who are on the edge of extremism themselves.

Given that fact that our economy is going into a long term (some say upwards of 4 years) recession, the US will not have the financial resources, political support (amongst both its own citizens and its international allies), and military strength it has had in recent past.

Therefore it would be wise and prudent to select your choice based on who can maintain a balance of strength and diplomacy, while we as a nation pull ourselves up by our bootstraps, and bring this great nation back to the prominence it once used to enjoy 9 years ago.

Or so it seems to me.
 

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Ok Ryan I agree one is more eloquent than the other. One is a man of words and one is a man of action. The old speak softly and carry a big stick is what we expect our country to do for us. To bad they couldn't combine their ideas and ideals into one for the betterment of all of us when the election is finished.

These party's and the differences they take with each other are constantly undermining each other when if facto they are undermining the USA... the commies!!! :lol:
 

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The game of diplomacy is not won in days, but in months and years. Other countries are very cautious and prudent when it comes to matters of diplomacy and international trade and business.

BobM says-Hogwash other countries rely on us to protect them and the rest of the free world while they live in jealousy of our strength. This world is not ruled by or kept safe by diplomacy and never ever was and never ever will be... it is ruled by the application of force. Diplomacy was laughed at by the communists during the cold war and the terrorists of today. They respect only one thing Military might!

If we have a President who makes flash gut check decisions on his own (proven by his choice of VP, amongst others), that could prove disastrous to our efforts at maintaining diplomatic relations with countries who are on the edge of extremism themselves.

Bobm Says-the only reason these countries want any diplomatic relations with us is they respect and fear the consequences of attacking us which is precisely why they support shadow groups to wage secret wars and claim to be innocent bystanders. Fortunately for them the US ( as always) is willing to put their money and blood on the line to weed out the evil among them without killing any more innocents than is absolutley necessary.

Given that fact that our economy is going into a long term (some say upwards of 4 years) recession, the US will not have the financial resources, political support (amongst both its own citizens and its international allies), and military strength it has had in recent past.

Bobm says-So elect Obama and destroy our economy with another Carter era of income redistribution and government intervention into the private sector by a bunch of Obamas allies none of which have ever ran a buiness as evidenced by the recent Fannie may freddy mac issue where they insisted in giving loans based on percieved fairness than financial prudence.

Therefore it would be wise and prudent to select your choice based on who can maintain a balance of strength and diplomacy, while we as a nation pull ourselves up by our bootstraps, and bring this great nation back to the prominence it once used to enjoy 9 years ago.

bobm says-Right 9 years ago where terroists plotted to kill and then successfully pulled off and attack on our nation directly attributable to Clintons refusal to act and the libs in his admistration tying the hands of the FBI and the CIA. The blood of those people in the twin towers is on the Clinton adminstrations hands.

Or so it seems to me.
Bobm says- Ryan I believe you are highly intelligent so I have to believe it seems that to you because rather than look at factual events in history you rely on our media to color you view and they are dishonest and have mislead you
 

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An eloguent speaker, with good posture, that carries himself/herself well doesnt mean shiat to me. Has nothing to do with the ability to do the job. In fact, im MORE leery of an eloquent speaker, their better able to spin and distort the truth. Stalin and Hitler were excellent speakers who were very stoic and carried themselves very well too.

bretts said:
and a big thing for me somebody that doesn't make brash decisions simply on emotions.
Sometimes this isnt necessarily a bad thing.
 

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THE FACTS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES:

Obama voted to ban hundreds of rifles and shotguns commonly used for hunting and sport shooting
Illinois Senate, SB 1195, 3/13/03

Obama endorsed a ban on all handguns
Independent Voters of Illinois/Independent Precinct Organization general candidate questionnaire, 9/9/96
Politico, 03/31/08.

Obama voted to allow the prosecution of people who use a firearm for self-defense in their homes
Illinois Senate, S.B. 2165, vote 20, 3/25/04

Obama supported increasing taxes on firearms and ammunition by 500 percent
Chicago Defender, 12/13/99

Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting
United States Senate, S. 397, vote 217, 7/29/05

Obama opposes Right-to-Carry laws
Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, 4/2/08, Chicago Tribune, 9/15/04

On the Second Amendment, Don't Believe Obama

Print PDF version
The presidential primary season is finally over, and it is now time for gun owners to take a careful look at just where nominee Barack Obama stands on issues related to the Second Amendment. During the primaries, Obama tried to hide behind vague statements of support for "sportsmen" or unfounded claims of general support for the right to keep and bear arms.

But his real record, based on votes taken, political associations, and long standing positions, shows that Barack Obama is a serious threat to Second Amendment liberties. Don't listen to his campaign rhetoric! Look instead to what he has said and done during his entire political career.

FACT: Barack Obama opposes four of the five Supreme Court justices who affirmed an individual right to keep and bear arms. He voted against the confirmation of Alito and Roberts and he has stated he would not have appointed Thomas or Scalia.17

FACT: Barack Obama voted for an Illinois State Senate bill to ban and confiscate "assault weapons," but the bill was so poorly crafted, it would have also banned most semi-auto and single and double barrel shotguns commonly used by sportsmen.18

FACT: Barack Obama voted to allow reckless lawsuits designed to bankrupt the firearms industry.1

FACT: Barack Obama wants to re-impose the failed and discredited Clinton Gun Ban.15

FACT: Barack Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.3

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a 500% increase in the federal excise tax on firearms and ammunition.9

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership.2

FACT: Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities.4

FACT: Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people who use firearms in self-defense.5

FACT: Barack Obama supports gun owner licensing and gun registration.6

FACT: Barack Obama refused to sign a friend-of-the-court Brief in support of individual Second Amendment rights in the Heller case.

FACT: Barack Obama opposes Right to Carry laws.7

FACT: Barack Obama was a member of the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation, the leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and "research."8

FACT: Barack Obama supported a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of a school or park, which would eliminate almost every gun store in America.9

FACT: Barack Obama voted not to notify gun owners when the state of Illinois did records searches on them.10

FACT: Barack Obama voted against a measure to lower the Firearms Owners Identification card age minimum from 21 to 18, a measure designed to assist young people in the military.11

FACT: Barack Obama favors a ban on standard capacity magazines.12

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory micro-stamping.13

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory waiting periods.2

FACT: Barack Obama supports repeal of the Tiahrt Amendment, which prohibits information on gun traces collected by the BATFE from being used in reckless lawsuits against firearm dealers and manufacturers.14

FACT: Barack Obama supports one-gun-a-month handgun purchase restrictions.16

FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on inexpensive handguns.9

FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on the resale of police issued firearms, even if the money is going to police departments for replacement equipment.9

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory firearm training requirements for all gun owners and a ban on gun ownership for persons under the age of 21.9

1. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 219, July 29, 2005. (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/r ... vote=00219)

2. Independent Voters of Illinois/Independent Precinct Organization general candidate questionnaire, Sept. 9, 1996. The responses on this survey were described in "Obama had greater role on liberal survey," Politico, March 31, 2008. (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9269.html)

3. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 217, Kennedy amendment July 29, 2005. (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/r ... vote=00217)

4. David Wright, Ursula Fahy and Sunlen Miller, "Obama: 'Common Sense Regulation' On Gun Owners' Rights," ABC News' "Political Radar" Blog, http://blogs.abcnews.com, 2/15/08. (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar ... on-se.html)

5. Illinois Senate, SB 2165, March 25, 2004, vote 20 and May 25, 2004, vote 3.

6. "Fact Check: No News In Obama's Consistent Record." Obama '08, December 11, 2007. (http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck/20 ... amas_c.php)

7. "Candidates' gun control positions may figure in Pa. vote," Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, Wednesday, April 2, 2008, and "Keyes, Obama Are Far Apart On Guns," Chicago Tribune, 9/15/04. (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 60181.html)

8. 1998 Joyce Foundation Annual Report, p. 7.

9. "Obama and Gun Control," The Volokh Conspiracy, taken from the Chicago Defender, Dec. 13, 1999. (http://www.volokh.com/posts/1203389334.shtml)

10. Illinois Senate, May 5, 2002, SB 1936 Con., vote 26.

11. Illinois Senate, March 25, 2003, SB 2163, vote 18.

12. "Clinton, Edwards, Obama on gun control," Radio Iowa, Sunday, April 22, 2007. (http://learfield.typepad.com/radioiowa/ ... wards.html)

13. Chicago Tribune blogs, "Barack Obama: NIU Shootings call for action," February 15, 2008, (http://blogs.trb.com/news/politics/blog ... shoot.html)

14. Barack Obama campaign website: "As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment . . ." (http://www.barackobama.com/issues/urban ... nforcement.)

15. Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes (http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_ ... ontrol.htm and http://www.ontheissues.org/IL_2004_Senate_3rd.htm) Oct 21, 2004.

16. Illinois Senate, May 16, 2003, HB 2579, vote 34.

17. United States Senate vote 245, September 29, 2005 and vote 2, January 31, 2006 and Saddleback Forum, August 16, 2008.

18. Illinois Senate Judiciary Committee, March 13, 2003. To see the vote tally go to: http://www.nrapvf.org/Media/pdf/sb1195_obama.pdf.

Shall I go on?? There are no gray areas here, but you decide. He can read a speech and sound like he is intelligent but can still sound like an idiot without the telepromptor.
 

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Here is more for you to ponder....Maybe you have read these trash books, maybe not.....

From Dreams of My Father:'I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites.'

From Dreams of My Father : 'I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race.'

From Dreams of My Father:'There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white.'

From Dreams of My Father: 'It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.'

From Dreams of My Father:'I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa , that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in myself , the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela.'

And FINALLY the Most Damning one of ALL of them!!!
From Audacity of Hope:'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.'
 

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I like a guy that knows how to laugh at himself and can admit he makes mistakes.

Obama seems to be so arrogant that he cannot and will not admit if he makes a mistake, and if he thinks he might make one he will vote present. I wonder what he will do if he gets a tough phone call at 3:00 in the morning?
 

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Hunter_58346 said:
And FINALLY the Most Damning one of ALL of them!!!
From Audacity of Hope:'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.'
I'm sure there are a lot of 80 year-old Japanese-Americans who wish somebody had said the same for them. Instead, they were rounded up and put in camps for 3 years. Their businesses and homes were mostly looted in that time. THAT's what he's talking about. It's not some sinister plot to install an Islamic government.
 
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