Vaccine Passport.....

[Chuck Smith]

So now the discussion is a "vaccine passport" type thing in the USA and EU. This is mainly getting pushed by liberals.

Now here is some things to think about.

- They dont want you to show ID to vote but you need to show vaccination to travel
- They want to making it more strict to purchase a fire arm than it is to vote
- They dont seem concerned about illegals without passports or "vaccinations"... but want citizens to have these passports.


Then the kicker that I like to bring up since all you hear from the extreme liberals (not people on this site so much) but REPUBLICANS ARE NAZI's..... Well.... see the picture i attached...

Like I have stated... .the political party that looks more like the German Nazi's isn't the republicans... But again... this is the extremists on the left... they match the extremists on the right...

[Chuck Smith]

Also a side note on the whole "vaccine passport" stuff....

Wouldn't this violate some HIPPA laws? Think about it.

[southdakbearfan]

There are specific exceptions in the law for public health, when a disclosure is federally required and other reasons that may specifically relate back to this. Also during a declared public health emergency hipaa is extremely narrowed and allows a lot more disclosure.

I can see this specifically for foreign travel but may be required for large venue events in some states.

It will most likely just create a market for fraudulent vaccine records.

[Chuck Smith]

I can also see it for international travel. But domestic not so much. Because where does it end? Remember there are laws that are specifically made to not discriminate against medical type conditions.

What I am getting at is we are GOING BACKWARDS if they make this into a law with discrimination. Because now can you say... If you have cancer I dont want you at this venue? If you have AIDS/HIV we dont want you at this venue? If you have the medical disability we dont want you at this venue? If you have a mental disability we dont want you at this venue? Or.... you have to show me your medical history to get into this venue? You dont have the measals vaccine... dont come in? you dont have HPV vaccine... dont come in?

I know I am being extreme but you see what this is doing.... it is going BACKWARDS.

Also during a declared public health emergency hipaa is extremely narrowed and allows a lot more disclosure.

So you are saying that the "emergency powers" will now be a full time thing?


Now what will this do to other immunizations... meassals? HPV?, the regular flu vaccination? etc. Also remember the phrase... My body my right? Also before anyone goes off and says... Abortion can't hurt others around them.... WRONG... first off it actually terminates a life. Second emotional, mental, and possibly physical health of everyone involved.

[Chuck Smith]

Also to touch base back on this whole "vaccine passport" and who is pushing for it....

Don't you think you would want to stop illegal immigration? People coming across the borders without vaccinations?

YOu would want them to stop in another country until you can "veitt" them to make sure they are vaccinated or you give them the doses before they enter?

Also about the same people "pushing for this" are the people who say ID'ing someone to see if they are who they say they are when it comes to voting is ILLEGAL.... yet they want you to make sure you are vaccinated to go to a movie theatre.

Like I said.... does it make sense????

[Chuck Smith]

Here is another twist about the "vaccine passport"....

Isn't it "documented" that the inner city or "black communities" are not getting the vaccine as fast as other communities?

Isn't it "documented" that minorities are not getting the vaccine as quickly?

***** The reason why I am saying this is because there has been articles that the distribution has been "racist" some how


So if you are going to "require" a vaccine passport of sorts.... isn't that being RACIST???

Yes let all of this sink in. The media has been saying the vaccine isn't getting to minorities... the media has been saying that minorities are not taking the vaccine.... the media is saying all of this is "racist" with the vaccine distribution.....or how the virus is hitting "minorities" harder or what ever.... now they want a passport to prove you gotten the vaccine. So......

Will this cause more "racism" out there or the illusion of "racism" because somewhere a person of color will get denied admission to something because of the "vaccine passport" and they will scream racism when it was the fact about the passport is why.

If they do make a "vaccine passport" into a law or something.... you mark my word you will see in about a months time articles about "racism" because a person of color didn't get allowed to do something because they didn't have the passport.

[dakotashooter2]

I guess that would make not carrying ID and claiming you are an illegal a "free pass" . I might have to burn my Drivers license...

[Plainsman]

I would perhaps be ok with the passport if it wasn't proposed by scheming, lying, communists. I fear it may the precursor of a more extreme identification that is required or you can't buy or sell.

[Chuck Smith]

Here is my thing..... if another country wants to do it when they allow visitors... FINE IT IS THAT COUNTRYS RIGHTS.

BUT NOT IN THE USA.... where we value citizens rights. This is a direct violation of civil rights which were fought hard for. It is a violation of freedoms. Remember schools and other place are allowing children into schools who are "not vaccinated"... because it is the "right" of the parents to know what is good for their childs health..... but now some of those same people are screaming... WE NEED VACCINATION PASSPORTS.... does that make sense??? They fight for the parent who doesn't want to vaccinate their child because of "rights"... but now want everyone to be vaccinated to move about in the country?? This is the craziness of our elected officials and media.

Again.... lets let illegal immigrants into the country....and RELEASE THEM... but lets not care if they have COVID or have had the vaccination... or even hold them for a month so they can get vaccinated.... NOPE WE MUST LET THEM IN.... but then in the same breath they will say... VACCINE PASSPORTS are a must. How does that make any sense???

What we are seeing and reading about this whole pandemic is straight hypocrisy. You as a citizen "can't" do things... yet we need to let people in our country? You as a citizen MUST get vaccinated... but lets let people into our country who are not.... YOu as a citizen cant go about your daily life.... but yet us elected officals can do what ever we want. You as a citizen must live in "FEAR" and do what we say.... but dont watch me travel around the country, go out to eat, visit my family, go on vacations, etc. PEOPLE WAKE UP... .our elected officals are not working for the people anymore. YES THIS IS ALL OF THEM.

[southdakbearfan]

I am assuming you all have or had issues with providing vaccination records for your children to attend school or college?

[Chuck Smith]

Sd...... you can object to that if you want in some states.... and your child is admitted into school.

https://vaccines.procon.org/state-by-st ... dergarten/

YOu see that is what I am getting at.

Also here is something to think about....

If a Vaccine Passport become the norm. So when you come to vote can they ask you for that vaccination passport? Then ask you for ID to make sure that it is you who really is vaccinated? Or even asking for the Vaccine Passport could be deemed as "voter supression".

Think about it.


edit:
on a side note the MMR shots have been developed over the years and not done in this time. They are not synthetic (I believe) like these shots. Also MMR has more of a "death toll" than COVID....ie: is more deadly.

Remember COVID has over a 98% survival rate.

[southdakbearfan]

And you could elect to not go anywhere requiring a vaccine passport too. Some state no longer allow religious or personal exemptions due to measles outbreaks.

I am thinking it will logistically be a nightmare except for travel (proof to buy a plane ticket), crossing borders and major events (proof to buy a ticket electronically) so basically no tickets at the door.

It will probably spur a black market on fake vaccine records.

2% would be potentially 6 million us citizens. So is 98% acceptable.

And measles fatality rate is somewhere between 1 in 4000 to 10,000. Way less than COVID.

[Chuck Smith]

And measles fatality rate is somewhere between 1 in 4000 to 10,000. Way less than COVID.

NOT AT THE TIME OF THE REGULATIONS WHEN REGAURDING SCHOOLS!!!!


Also we dont have the total numbers yet on Covid.... Do I need to state this again.... THE CDC DOESN"T HAVE EXACT NUMBERS YET ON ACTUAL CAUSES OF DEATH WITH COVID.... so the 98% survival rate could change either up or down. Most "covid" deaths people have some other condition....ie: cancer, heart issues, lung issues, etc. Covid isn't the only cause. So the CDC needs to go thru all the data.

So to say... passport cards is jumping the shark so to speak. We need more data.

Also lets look at it like this.... isn't the vaccination card opening the door for discrimination???

Like I have mentioned and per media reports....ie: people of color are not getting vaccinated as quickly. So will this discriminate against them from going to places? Will it open the door for actual racists to use "vaccination" as an excuse now.

Also with the "vaccination" passport... it is the federal goverment saying how you should run your business. It is infringing on your rights.

Let me put it this way... the goverment can come into any business that is licensed or regulated by the state/feds (which 90% all require licensing or some sort) and tell you that you can't let people in your door unless the fit these guidelines...ie: vaccination passports. Then if you dont... they take away your licensing. Think liquor licenses, food service licenses/permits, think contractors have licenses, real estate professionals, insurance professionals, USDA butchers, food prep or sales, etc. All regulated by the state/feds. So if you don't "comply" your license is at risk. THINK ABOUT IT. Then like I mentioned with HIPAA..... how can you ask these things?

SD... you never mentioned or touch on... So emergency powers will be now "forever"???? Or how much longer should they be allowed??? Because once emergency is over should this "passport" be terminated???

[dakotashooter2]

actually that would be quite ironic. the democrats who are pushing such a law would be the first ones crying voter suppression because poor minorities would be the most likely victims Actually this would be a prime opportunity to get voters registered.
vaccinate and register at the same time...

The secondary problem becomes … what if you are vaccinated for the wrong strain ?????

[Chuck Smith]

The secondary problem becomes … what if you are vaccinated for the wrong strain

Correct.... there is something like 4 "waves" or variants out there already. THIS IS A VIRUS IT MUTATES.... that is what viruses do!! The common flu mutates every year. But will this be to keep them more in "control" of the people??

[Chuck Smith]

I also want to it make clear....

This thread isn't about getting the vaccine or not getting the vaccine. It is about the over reaching of the goverment saying you need to PROVE you got the vaccine to go about your daily life INSIDE OF THE USA. That is what this is about.

It is about how some politicians think you need to "prove" you were vaccinated is more important than proving who you are in order to VOTE. It is that in one breathe they scream... Rights and the next say you shouldn't be able to enjoy your normal life unless you have a vaccine passport to travel and go out in the USA.

They scream it is supression if you ask for ID but yet it isn't suppression when you ask to show that you are vaccinated....btw how will they know it is really your vaccination card unless they ask for ID.

I am showing the hypocrisy that is rampant in our country and it has got to stop!! Showing you how stupid some of the stuff that is happening in our country.

If you feel you need to have the vaccine go and do it. If you don't think you need it... well that is your choice.

[Plainsman]

I am assuming you all have or had issues with providing vaccination records for your children to attend school or college?

That was before the democrats escaped the asylum.

[southdakbearfan]

Not saying the vaccine is the way to go or not, just saying it's not unprecedented or even out of the ordinary.

Measles fatality at it's peak, 1 in 500 to 1000. 1/500=.002 or 0.2% - as treatments have gotten better the fatality rate has no doubt dropped. MMR is still a required vaccine, except for objections in some states, for school/college.

COVID19 fatality rate current - is about 1.5% or 7.5 times higher than measles at it's peak. Even if you believe twice as many people have been infected (which is very possible) its still almost 4 times higher mortality rate than measles.

Now measles, according to the data, is about 3 times more infectious a disease that COVID19, so that also factors in. But COVID19 is about twice as infectious as the flu.

As far as vaccine development timelines. mRNA vaccine development was specifically developed or created (due to G. W. Bush pushing for investment into it's creation) to vastly increase the speed of vaccine development for these exact type of pandemics. It has been under development for almost 15 years. mRNA vaccines are also very easily modified for differing strains as well, but initial results vs all strains show almost 100% effective against preventing hospitalization.

60 years ago, yes it took years to develop/test a safe vaccine. Cars made 7 miles to the gallon, everyone shot lead shot, 50 percent of the population smoked, the AR15 was still new, cell phones didn't exist and computers were the size of a car too. Times change, technology develops, timelines are shortened due to those advances in science/tech/medicine. 50 years from now it will probably take a day to process a vaccine for anything or humans may have nanotech immune enhancement.

As far as what we don't know, of course we don't know. It's all going off the best data currently available. You can call it a SWAG, scientific wild a$$ guess, but I guess I feel a lot more comfortable about going off the SWAG of some of the best and brightest scientists and doctors in the world vs everyone's feelings.

As far as the passport, I could give a &$#* less. I have had COVID and just got my 2nd shot today. My wife gets her 2nd next week, my daughters already have both and my son will get it when he can. If I need to carry a card to get back to normal so be it. It's much ado about nothing to me.

[Plainsman]

SDBearfan no one is argueing about the advantages of modern medicine and vaccines. The problem I have is the way the democrats politicize everything and are using the covid virus to control people. They are only successful at this if society is complacent. For example

As far as the passport, I could give a &$#* less.

I wonder about the Jews in WWII Germany. I suppose the first ones not knowing what was happening were compliant and led away like a sheep to slaughter. We know that Hunter Biden and Joe Biden are tied in tight with China. Anyone with two brain cells understands that China is our enemy and wants to be the only world super power. We know they work on biological warfare. We know their number one lab is Wuhan. For years children's toys from China have had things like lead in them, even chew toys for babies. I remember that in the news and China played stupid.

Now combine that with statements from guys like Bill Gates who said we may have to consider forced vaccine sterilization on the world. It would appear that give a man a lot of money and he losses respect for fellow humans.

One reality is the democrats used the virus for an excuse for mail in voting. Now they come up with HR1 which violates states rights and makes permanent an open door to election fraud, and I think that's their intent. Illegal aliens can vote, and if caught are unpunished. Felons can vote even while in prison. No one can be asked for an ID to vote. You need an ID in a bar, to cash a check, to drive a car, etc but not to vote which could be the greatest national security threat we face. Why - control, and that's why they want a vaccine passport. We can question, or we can be sheep, and those that feel superior can even mock the prudent.

[Chuck Smith]

SD....

You still haven't touched on the whole... Emergency orders?

So will these "passports" be a norm or only during executive orders?

What is the next thing they make you put on the passport? HIPAA laws? Civil rights possibly getting violated?... etc.

Also you talk about "the flu".... the numbers of people who got this flu this year dropped over half..... why is that?? Is it because we dont have the correct data yet about COVID.... is it because the media, our elected officals and everyone is politizing it? How about the WHO report that just came out.... SAYING WUHAN and CHINA had nothing to do with the outbreak.... REALLY???? Much of this isn't passing the smell test for me. But I also recognize that we need more time to get all the data and facts straight. But with political leaders of the world getting in the way we might never know those numbers.

BTW.... I saw an article where they talked about a 4 wave.... just wait in less than a month there will be a 5th, 6th, etc waves.....But you noticed Tex got rid of mandates and opened up.... and cases are dropping dispite the influx of illegals who are coming across the border with COVID.

It is crazy what all of these elected officals are doing just to hold onto power.

I am betting that in MN Gov Walz will keep his powers until after the Chauvin Trial.... he wants to try to keep some control.... especially so far it isn't looking good to get the "murder" charge against him or the others involved. But that is another thread.

[southdakbearfan]

As far as I know the us government is still operating under trumps declared national emergency which was put into effect a little over a year ago. The national emergencies act dictates such powers, procedures and requirements.

Of course the flu dropped, between the percentage of people masking, limitations on mass gatherings, and closures there was way less opportunity of transmission. Remember the flu is about 1/2 as infectious as COVID according to the data.

You guys seem more interested in conspiracy theories and false outrage more than anything. As far as I can see a handful of individuals have turned a vibrant outdoors website into a political drivel outrage outlet.

I will take my exit as it just isn’t worth the effort and time to be involved in a debate where facts and truth do not matter.

Thank for all the reloading, hunting and fishing discussions over the years and I wish you all health and happiness. That was my reason for being here, and that basically no longer exists.

[Chuck Smith]

SD...

YOu go right into blaming Trump for emergency orders. I asked how much longer do you think they will be going on? If they expire will the "passports then expire"?

You were the one who brought the emergency powers issue.


How about this.... you know in order to get a vaccine you need to show an ID... correct? Now if you are then required to show your "vaccine passport" isn't that racist. Since showing your ID to vote is considered Racist by many extreme liberals?

You see the hypocricy.

And I dont want you to leave at all. I am showing you holes in your thought process and the hyporcisy of it all.

Please show me where "facts" dont matter? Also you state that the flu cases dropped because of masks and social distancing.... THAT ISNT PROVEN YET.

Like I have stated and so has the CDC over and over again..... They dont have true numbers yet on all of the COVID related stuff and also with the "flu" this year because things were lumped into one big group. They also dont have the numbers because people didn't go to get checked out because of the "flu". Many people stayed home and didn't go in. Plus many false positive testing and also the "probable cause" of COVID....ie: you didn't have to test positive for covid to be grouped into covid....ie: you showed "covid" type sympthoms at one time...WHICH MANY FLU SYMPTHOMS ARE THE SAME..... YES these are the facts on how things got reported. They all errored on the side of caution... which is fine until you make it politicall. THAT IS THE ISSUE....

Then lets throw in the survival rate type stuff you talked about...1.5% or what ever.... hmmmm.... the CDC also keeps stating that they need to go thru those numbers as well. Was it COVID that killed someone or was it a car crash, cancer, heart issues, a stroke, etc. Because still as of today if you die and have a positive covid test... you are marked down as COVID DEATH. So all the numbers are not correct. This past year i know of 5 people who have passed all because their battle with Cancer wasn't working and they just had enough and stopped the treatments... .guess what... every single one of them tested positive for COVID.... yep. So on the death certificate (found out from family members) Covid is listed as one of the causes. So right there those are 5 deaths that should be taken off the "covid death numbers".... but are not yet because of how they are required to report things. This is the stuff the CDC needs to go thru and will in time.

YET our leaders want to make laws based on not accurate data. They want to make "passports" or "papers", they want to keep things shut down, they want to keep limits on what businesses can and cannot do, they want to CHANGE VOTING LAWS because of a one year pandemic and not accurate data.... They are making changes to our lives that could be forever on something they dont have all the data or the correct numbers yet. YOU SEE THAT IS THE ISSUE.

[Chuck Smith]

Another little tangent (if you can tell this whole vaccine passport is getting to me)...

Many elected officials want to let people into this country. Now I dont care what your stance is on immigration. everyone can agree something needs to be done. But they dont want to vett these people. IE: right now they dont care if the people crossing the border have gotten the vaccine... or have tested NEGATIVE in the past 14 days.... or they are not even giving them the vaccine. But yet they want to make sure the citizens of the USA are carrying around a "passport" to show proof of vaccination? Does that make sense? Is that taking COVID seriously?

Who's rights are they really protecting??

Again this isn't about getting or not getting the vaccine. I have had my first shot and in two weeks get my second one. It is about the goverment over reaching and infringing on the rights of its citizens.

I keep bringing it up... but it needs to.... Remember HR1 and SR1 are two bills that are saying state voter ID laws are "racist", infringing on rights and/or voter suppression. YET some of the same elected officials that are for these bills are saying we need the vaccine passport. HOW IS THE PASSPORT NOT INFRINGING ON RIGHTS???? Also the same people who are totally for abortion and are the first ones to state.... your body your choice.... are the ones pushing this??? So is this saying that if you dont get the vaccination you will be "excluded" from certain activities???

God i hope you can see the hypocisy in all of this.

I mean our political spectrum is so blurred that people will not admit to these things and see how it is crazy when you say one thing is good and the other is bad when they do the exact same thing!!!!

[Plainsman]

I think everyone understands Chuck, but many have become so partisan they can't, or refuse to admit it.

I'm always confused by people who don't start many threads in other forms, but partisipate in the political and hot topics. I'm also surprised that anyone would think hunters and gun owners would agreecwith the liberal spectrum of things. Further we don't compel anyone to read what they don't want to. I think I offend some when I point out that they are talking down to people. That technique isn't very successful.

Below is a policy about these things.

I'm getting a lot of PM's lately of people complaining of what's going on in the hot topics.

Keep in mind, all contraversial threads come here. If you don't want to read drama and that junk, don't come onto this forum.

If you're sick of RES/NR conversations, don't read this forum. This is where they're all being directed right now. People feel it's necessary to hijack every duck or goose thread and turn it into a debate.

So please don't complain to me about this forum. As they say, "if you can't take the heat stay out of the hot topics" or I think someone did anyway.

[Plainsman]

I was thinking about partisanship as a problem with our liberal friends and I'll explain myself. If you remember all the times they were wrong about the Russia investigation, the Ukraine etc.? Were they angry with the people who lied to them and they believed it? No, they were angry at us for being right. Did they become warry of the liars? No they continued to post many false things. As for myself I don't like either party, and perhaps that's why I liked Trump. I often wonder if some of these people have some kind of dog in the fight.

[Plainsman]

I was listening to Newsmax this evening and a constitutional professor or whatever he was described a vaccine passport as the beginning of tyranny. He explained that if they can do this nothing can stop them from going as far as they want.

[Chuck Smith]

a constitutional professor or whatever he was described a vaccine passport as the beginning of tyranny. He explained that if they can do this nothing can stop them from going as far as they want.

That is 100% correct!!! And the reason why this bothers me so much.

What is next.... um for "public" safety... we need you to turn in all your guns. I know that is extreme but they could do it if they can get away with this "passport".

I know some will argue that if coming into this country you need it (if coming from certain countries mainly in africa). Or you need it when traveling abroad. CORRECT THAT IS VISITING A COUNTRY. The thing they are wanting to pass is you will need one to go to a concert, sporting event, on a plane or bus, possibly to the super market, etc. YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE... they are trying to possibly limit your everyday movements and FREEDOMS. THAT IS THE ISSUE.

Also to go off your post about how people got angry at the ones who were correct..... You see how SD went directly to "Trump is the one who did the emergency orders"..... I never once blamed a political party for that. I just asked "how long do you think we will be under these and if/when they expire will the vaccine passports as well?" But again... goes directly into blaming someone else and not answering the question. We got 4 years of people saying... Well Trump did this... or It is Trumps fault.... we already are seeing that...ie: Border.

[Plainsman]

Also to go off your post about how people got angry at the ones who were correct..... You see how SD went directly to "Trump is the one who did the emergency orders"..... I never once blamed a political party for that. I just asked "how long do you think we will be under these and if/when they expire will the vaccine passports as well?" But again... goes directly into blaming someone else and not answering the question. We got 4 years of people saying... Well Trump did this... or It is Trumps fault.... we already are seeing that...ie: Border.

I also notice while whinning about politics and hot topics that they partake in they whine about the absence of rifle or hunting posts yet never start any. I would like to see more of those type of threads also, but when I have in the past they dont partisipate or even acknowledge they are reading it. I have been doing a lot of bullet casting for 9mm, 357 mag, 45 ACP, 44 mag, and 45/70. Also I have been working on accuracy and velocity of 223, 6.5 Grendel, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5x284, 308, and 300 win mag. Also subsonic loads to use with a suppressor. If anyone is truely interested I'll try again and post information. I suspect it was simply whinning, but perhaps there are observers who are actually interested and will speak up.

Edit: Chuck check this out. https://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/vi ... 0&t=183471

[Chuck Smith]

Here is a cartoon that i saw floating around today.

It shows you what we are dealing with in todays world and some peoples logic. Again.... this isn't meant to be a dig on anyone but shows you how people think.


BTW... had a great talk with some Dem's over easter... we talked about "mask" mandates and what not. How many republicans act is BS and many others act is BS as well.

Here is an example and the people I talked with agreed with me.

Lets say a store owner has a sign up saying masks required. You walk in and don't put one on. You shouldn't be offended if someone asks you to put one on. Especially if it is an EMPLOYEE. If a random person asks you... you should just brush it off and walk away. Just like if the random person asks you to put it on and you ignore or brush it off and walk away... THAT PERSON SHOULDN'T follow you around and keep hammering you. The only people who should do that is the Employee's or owners. BECAUSE THAT IS THEIR JOB IF THEY WANT TO ENFORCE THAT RULE. But we also concluded that the non mask wearer who is saying... IT IS MY RIGHT... sure it is... but it is the business's right if they want you to wear one in their place of business. You can choose not to shop there or do business there.

So you see.... lots of people on either side have the exact same views on this stuff... it is the extreme idiots who make is worse. That is a dig on both sides.

Anyways here is the cartoon.

As always... do what you feel is right for you and your family with the vaccination or not.