White (not albino) Moose

[WhiteMoose]

Hey all.... wandering what kind of response other hunters would get from pic's like these.











Those are all wild moose about 20 miles from my home. They're not albino.

Many people are talking about protecting these animals through legal measures and also a live capture... I'm for it ... Why not remove these animals from the herd and put them into a large fenced in park ?


Joel

[nodakoutdoors.com]

Look again, I think one of them is a unicorn:

[Bobm]

Moose the other white meat???? or is that slogan taken

[Militant_Tiger]

Thats odd, I have a sparrow just like that in my backyard. Not albino, just white.

[Draker16]

wow cool pic, I think it would be good to put them in a national park where they would be safe. Is It legal to shoot an albino moose?

[WhiteMoose]

Draker,

You'd mentioned "I think it would be good to put them in a national park where they would be safe."
- I ask, why do you think they should be protected, and why relocated into a national park?

"Is It legal to shoot an albino moose?"
- Depending on the province or state ... some yes, most no ...

Joel

[Trapper62]

Leave them be and let nature take its course! Evidentually the cow has survived a few seasons already!

[WhiteMoose]

Trapper,

Would you include being hit by a train or automobile to be consistent with 'nature takings its course' ?

And yes this strain has been around for about 40 years ... consistently with white cows producing white calves ...

Sure would be a shame to see the last couple animals from this strain just disappear because they got smoked by a transport truck ...

Joel

[Militant_Tiger]

Some are destined to get hit, just as some are destined to die from hunger or disease. You must remember that man is a force of nature.

[WhiteMoose]

Militant,

Agree that in the wild, some are bound to get hit by trains (by probability) and some may starve (doubtful where the herd is not remotely close to carrying capacity) ...

However, disagree with the statement that humans are 'forces of nature' ... The distinction is the ability to reason and think things through ... While a pack of wolves that may wipe out this strain of white moose would be considered a 'force of nature' , the same can hardly be said when humans obliterate a species due to over hunting ... wolves don't have any idea that what they're doing is right or wrong .... a white moose is just a moose, and a tasty one at that ...

But humans are expected to be above this level (with the exception of humans living in isolation and ignorance of the outside world) ...

Joel

HUMANS ARE NOT PART OF THE FORCES OF NATURE !!!

[Militant_Tiger]

Wolves can easily kill off a pack of animals if they take too much, just as humans can. When humans kill off a group of animals I really don't they know the extent of their damage either. Anyhoo I'm gonna stop talking before this gets mean.

[Draker16]

Draker,

You'd mentioned "I think it would be good to put them in a national park where they would be safe."
- I ask, why do you think they should be protected, and why relocated into a national park?


Joel

I was just shooting from the hip by saying that it would be better for them in a national park, I just think that something that rare should be protected because hunters will be gunning for an albino moose, if it is legal to shoot them. I dont like the idea of them being removed from their natural souroundings, but if it means protecting them from hunters then I am for it. I'm not going to disagree with you where as I have no clue what the area they are in is like and you would no more then I on this subject. Is there alot of talk about moving them to a park?

[WhiteMoose]

Lots of talk regarding a relocation .... however, its mostly to protect them from trains, automobiles, and other hazards they may face in the wild ... not extremely worried about hunters provided that the regs are in place ... I agree with you that they should be relocated, but I'm wondering why you think they should be relocated? The proposed park is about 15 miles from their current location (or closer for some animals) ...

Joel

[Deermeister]

I just had to get in on this topic once.

WhiteMoose, you wrote:
I'm for it ... Why not remove these animals from the herd and put them into a large fenced in park?

Then Draker wrote:
I think it would be good to put them in a national park where they would be safe.

Then WhiteMoose wrote:
- I ask, why do you think they should be protected, and why relocated into a national park?

Then I ask, What's the difference between a "large fenced in park" and a "national park"? Other than one has a fence and the other does not. It sounds like you are not for putting them in a national park but you are for putting them in a large fenced in park. IF they ARE real, why not leave them where they are?

[Maverick]

Preservation!

And yes this strain has been around for about 40 years ... consistently with white cows producing white calves

...

If we can efficiently keep breeding these and get a stable number of white moose, what did it hurt to take them out of the herd and then reintroduce them into the wild after we properly breed them! Another species to enjoy or hunt after numbers are ample!

I ask why take the chance of losing something we could presevre, and maybe stabilize?

[Deermeister]

WhiteMoose,
Is this the only pair in the area or are there more? And are they all cows, or have they all been cows and no bulls? I'm just kind of curious on this one. Does the white cow ALWAYS have white calves or just sometimes? Or do they have a normal calf now and again? Sorry, I didn't read the part about the park being only 15 miles away! Git R Done.

[WhiteMoose]

In my research of the strain in my area, all the white moose (with the exception of the first one) came from other white moose ... I've yet to see any pictures or other documentation suggesting that the brown moose in the area are having white calves ..

The white cows are having both male and female calves, but the males don't seem to be as good at spreading their genes (or maybe just in the circumstances haven't had a chance) ...

If you look closely at the calf pic posted, it has nubs, indicating it will be a bull one day...

There are 4 to 5 in the area ... some will need to be moved less than 2 miles to get into the proposed park area ...

Maverick,
Have you been following up on my posts in other forums? We seem to be talking along the same lines... Protection measures including a live capture and relocation seem to be the best way to increase hunting opportunities .... like putting money into a bank.

Joel

[Draker16]

So this wildlife refuge is fenced in???

[WhiteMoose]

The park would have to be fenced in ... I can't see any other way to keep the animals out of harms way ... Can you?

The crux of the issue should really focus on the size of the park and making sure it's big enough so that the animals are comfortable .... they are wild animals and should be treated like wild animals, not domesticated dogs in small pens ...

Joel

[Draker16]

yeah i would think it would have to be fenced in, and it would have to be a large area so they can roam as if they were free. How big of area would you think is big enough?

[WhiteMoose]

From: Joel T.
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 11:50 PM
Subject: White Moose - Recent News & Pic's...


Mr. Bob Johnston,

I would like to begin by stating that I've been highly impressed by the efforts of your staff and yourself to help me establish a walleye hatchery on Nemegosenda lake. It is my sincere hope that your team will perform with the same excellence in regards to the white moose projects. Fortunately for your team, the first task requested by my group will require little "work" other than a pen stroke with your signature. The document should indicate that as the individual with express authority from the Minister of Natural Resources to protect the White Moose in WMU 30 and 31, you authorize removal of moose (which are more than 50% white)

from the hunting roster for 2005.



You had indicated that such an act would require consultation with a team of biologists and no protection could be afforded without determining these animals to be a new species. However, this requirement was not needed to afford protection to the kermode (spirit) bears of BC. Nor was it needed to protect white moose in such jurisdictions as Alaska or Labrador. The apparent view of those responsible for implementing hunting regulations in these areas (and others) is that such rare animals are more valuable to the public alive, as the best viewing and photography opportunities come to an abrupt halt if the animal perishes. I, and thousands of others, see no valid reason why the same type of legislation would not be enacted to help protect these extremely rare animals. In fact, Resolution 05-66 was passed by City of Timmins on March 7, 2005 to formally request of the Minister of Natural Resources to regulate the hunting of White Moose and afford them a protected status as a unique symbol of Northern Ontario.

I should note that by no means am I asking for a permanent removal of moose, which are more than 50% white, from the hunting roster in Ontario. When the Armstrong strain of white moose is no longer such a rarity, the hunt should be re-opened and regulated. There should be permits issued specifically for White Moose. I'm proposing that Ontario begin to finally make use of its resources to their fullest potential and place these animals under tempory protection, similar to putting money in a bank to allow it to grow.

My research has indicated that no such legislation has been enacted because the MNR would prefer these animals removed from the general population, seemingly out of fear that they will spread faulty genes to the general herd. Personally, I don't think that evolution has simply stopped because humans have become so technologically advanced. These genes may actually be a blessing. A white moose would seem to have a distinct advantage over a brown moose during the winter months. Furthermore, if it is true that wolves hunt with their noses in the summer, white moose would seem to suffer no great disadvantage to brown moose. More interestingly, this strain appears to have an odd variation involving grey guard hairs (even on the calves) which i've not seen on other strains of white moose. Is it really that far fetched that this strain may have the genetic ability (with a little luck) to produce moose which can molt from brown to white seasonally, similar to a snow shoe rabbit? Due to the uniqueness of these animals, it would seem that the best way to protect them is a live capture and relocation into a large, mixed composition, fenced in, park. Given the fact that trains, automobiles, natural hazards (like falling through the ice), and natural predators are factors beyond our control, a fence is seemingly a temporary necessity.

If it is the case that these animals are merely genetic defects as the MNR apparently believes to be the case, separation from the herd would seem to be the most sensible solution. However, given the immense value in terms of creation and diversification of employment opportunities that could be created by these animals (in an area largely devoid of industry), a live capture and relocation into a large fenced in, mixed habitat, park would seem to be the most logical solution. Interestingly, both of our opinions lead to the same conclusion regarding the best course of action.


So, the second request that I am making of you is that you have your staff start the paper work process (which I and others will gladly assist) to issue the permits for a live capture and relocation of the White Moose in WMU 30 and WMU 31. Ordinarily, I would believe that only the Minister of Natural Resources would be capable to authorize such a live capture, but given my reciept of a recent letter from the Honorable David Ramsay (the current Minister of Natural Resources), it would seem that this authority has been delegated to your person. I will be providing more details very shortly regarding the proposed transfer location for captured white moose.

Thank you for your time and I am eager to continue working with you for the betterment of Northern Ontario.

Sincerely yours,

Joel Theriault

[LadySnowfall]

Um, hate to break it to you, but moose don't live in herds. They're solitary creatures except during mating season. Living here in Alaska gives me the first hand chance to see them most days in my back yard...

[Alaskan Brown Bear Killer]

If they put the white moose in the park I think they have less of a chance for survival cause I think the grizz is a much more effective hunting machine then most humans and the bears don't go by our rules.

[Young'in]

where are you from whitemoose?

[gooseboy]

I would definatly not want them fenced up! I think that is wrong they should be left alone.

[honkbuster3]

I would definatly not want them fenced up! I think that is wrong they should be left alone.

I agree with GB. They are pretty cool creatures and should be preserved not shot