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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:47 pm
by omegax
Has anybody bought one of these yet?

What's the detail like? I'm a bit concerned that it would be a pain to read in my old black and white Lowrance.

I went out with a friend of mine to chase elk last year (successful, BTW), and it was a huge pain to try to reconcile where we were on the Forest Service map. I was thinking how sweet a GPS map of PLOTS and the Grasslands would be... This year I bought a bow, and we're headin' out for mulies. I'm trying to determine if this chip is worth it.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:13 pm
For hunting, I think it's going to be great. I think it does well with fishing, doesn't have Sakakawea yet though.


PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:16 pm
by kirsch

The NDTRAX maps have the most lakes for ND of any GPS mapping option. The main one not included as Chris mentions is Sak. These are all surveyed lakes so not based off old paper maps as many other competitor maps are.

The detail from a contour standpoint is 1' for shallow lakes, 3' for mid-range lakes, and 5' for deeper lakes so contour lines don't merge together as happens with other maps.

How will it look on a monochrome GPS, good. You won't be able to quickly distinguish between PLOTS and State Land for instance as Blue and Green will all show as gray but they are outlined with different lines so this will help and you can hover your GPS pointer on the item and see what it is.

There is no other GPS option with all the hunting lands, plus it includes more lakes than other option, and includes roads, trails, cities, and much more and is less than most lake maps. I am trying not to SPAM but simply put there is nothing else like it. If you use a search engine and type in NDTRAX, you will find the website. If you PM me, I can provide more information as well. I hope this helps.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:06 pm
Got mine and I'm very impressed with it, especially for scouting and hunting.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:47 am
by omegax
Mine showed up last night. I'm impressed, too. It's going to make my GPS infinitely more useful.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:37 am
by AdamFisk
What kind of GPS units you guys sticking them into?

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:35 pm
by omegax
Mine's an older monochrome Lowrance iFinder H20.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:41 pm
by kirsch
They will work in about Garmin or Lowrance that has a mapcard but I still recommend a color unit. There are subtle differences in the different land types that are much more evident on a color unit such as State Land being all blue, but still it works fine in a monochrome GPS as well.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:04 pm
by omegax
I can see why color is recommended. I'm very pleased with it even in my monochrome unit, but things do get a little cluttered when they're all similar colors, unless you're zoomed in quite a ways to cut down on the amount of "stuff" on the screen at any one time.

Saying "cluttered" sounds more negative than I really to intend to be. There's a lot of information to display, and it would be easier to differentiate in color.

I'm glad I like the Lowrance family, so I'll be able to use the same chip once I upgrade. However, I wouldn't let the lack of a color unit stop me from buying. On the contrary, I'm going to use the chip as an excuse to upgrade my GPS. If a guy were buying a new unit, I'd pony up the cash for the color unit... I just can't justify replacing my current unit, yet.

NDTRAX on grayscale GPS (no color)

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:30 pm
by kirsch
There are advantages to having a color GPS but NDTRAX still does a very good of allowing differentiation of different elements even without color.

Attached is an example showing the differentiation between a WMA, WPA and PLOTS. I not only use different shading but different borders, labeling and much more.

Image . Let me know if you have any other questions.[/img]

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:58 am
by AdamFisk
I am not seeing different colored land for some state and all Plots land on mine. I beleive TRNP is on there, but Arrowwood is not, at least not in a different color. I picked up a chip and a Nuvi 500 on Friday, so I'm not all that familiar with it. Does it matter how zoomed in or out you are? Also, i can't get any Plots land to show up "labeled" at all unless you put the mouse on it.

Nuvi 500

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:40 am
by kirsch
The built in topo map on the Nuvi 500 (which is a great GPS) is what is causing your display issue. The way to make NDTRAX appear as designed is to change the following setting on the 500.

Tools - Settings - System and choose Walking or Biking

On all the other NUVIs, it just appears by default. For anyone with an Oregon series, there is a land zoom setting that has to be adjusted because of topo as well. Sorry didn't mean to turn this into a support thread. It talks about this on the website under tips but for some reason the link isn't working from the forum right now. After changing this setting, PLOTS, Grasslands, WPAs, etc will COME ALIVE.

Arrowhead NWR is on the map as you mentioned and TRNP and much more.

Yes, it does matter how zoomed in you are but this isn't the issue currently. After this is done being set, there is an area for map detail settings and it can be set from LEAST to MOST. This will change how soon items begin to appear on the unit. The setting of "MORE" tends to be most people's favorite.

From memory I believe you set this at Tools - Settings - Map.

Once the map starts showing, you will be able notice PLOTS without putting your mouse on them as it will be much more evident. PM me or call me if you have any other questions but the change will be drastic after you change the settings.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:11 am
by AdamFisk
Well all be, that makes a world of difference. Thanks for the tips Cory.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:04 am
by Chuck Smith

Is that the GPS location of some geese or a big buck... lol. But that is amazing chip. I might need to pick one up.


PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:31 am
by kirsch
Chuck, I know you were joking but ironically, it would actually be illegal to include it believe it or not. :o I had a suggestion to put prairie dog locations on the map and got a quick response from a state employee citing the ND century code saying this would not be legal as you cannot list a specific location of animal or something similar to this.

So bottom line is you are right, you need to find that big buck, fish, geese, coyotes, pheasants on your own. My maps will help you find places to hunt, fish, travel, hike, etc and the rest is up to you. It would be fun if I could set the hook, take the shot, but you get to enjoy that part. :D Try one and you won't be sorry.

Kirsch (Korey)

NDTRAX Updated with most recent PLOTS data

PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:17 pm
by kirsch
Omegax and others who purchased NDTRAX, I just wanted you to know it has been updated with the latest PLOTS data. Traditionally, updates to NDTRAX are $20 but until NDTRAX 2010 comes out, all updates will be for FREE.

Send your NDTRAX cards to Kirsch's Outdoor Products and they will update them and send them back for FREE until NDTRAX 2010 is released. For updates, put your NDTRAX 2009 card in a bubble mailer and send them to:

Kirsch's Outdoor Products
7915 Aquarius Drive
Fargo, ND 58104


PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:46 pm
by slough

I assume they probably are, but are US Army Corps of Engineers lands marked on the NDTRAX? Thanks


PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:51 pm
by kirsch
Yes Army Corp is included. Depending on type of GPS and area being looked at, it may say ACOE, Army Corp, or just Corp.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:45 pm
Just got a GPS for Christmas and was curious when the 2010 ND Trax will be available?


PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:56 pm
by kirsch
For ND (NDTRAX), the typical timing for the next year update is usually early spring (typically around March) in time for the open water fishing season and there is usually one more update to the 2010 version prior to hunting season around August.

If you plan to hunt or fish before March, then I would highly recommend buying NDTRAX 2009 and then paying the nominal update fee of $20 and update sometime later in 2010. Thank you for checking.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:49 pm
by Plainsman
kirsch, I used my son's chip in the Badlands. It's a wonderful product. I decided to keep my Garmin 60 CS and buy a chip for my nuvi and a cd for my hand held. I'll be getting in touch about March.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:23 pm
by kirsch
Appreciate the kind words and look forward to your purchases of NDTRAX 2010.


PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:46 am
by Longshot
I used it this fall and it worked great. Well worth it! Almost everyone that rode in my truck this fall was amazed and wanted one also. Great product.

These are all surveyed lakes and not based off old paper maps as many other competitor maps are.

You would be amazed at the accuracy difference between survey data and the old maps that were digitized years ago.

With new GPS signals being developed we will all see great improvements with our hand held GPS units. We are now using the L2c signal in addition to the L1 and L2 with our survey grade GPS. As they continue to launch more and more satellites with this signal hopefully it won't be long that it will be available in the hand held units also. The belief is that this signal will eventually give the hand held unit 1 meter accuracy. Along with that a L5 signal is being developed and tested for release somewhere between 2015 and 2020 with the hope of achieving 1cm accuracy with a lone rover.


PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:24 pm
by Plainsman
Longshot thanks for that look into our GPS technological future.

Kirsch, I think your product makes my GPS worth three times what it is without it. While in the Badlands instead of trying to calculate if I have blundered onto private land I need only look at my GPS. I leave a good margin of error, but I don't need to leave a half mile like I did in the past. Thanks. I can't wait to use it on Deviils Lake.


PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:18 pm
by kirsch
Just an FYI, as the question was asked when NDTRAX 2010 will be released, it is now available. Some of the new features include:

1) A number of new lakes added including Harmon Lake
2) Lands totally redone including PLOTS, State, and Federal land
3) Land Owner Names added for Cass, Morton, and Pembina county
4) Township, Range, and Section number data added for remaining counties
5) Main wetlands in ND added
6) Land elements appear sooner with less need to zoom for land elements to appear

To top it all off, for those of you who like to scout using Google Earth, an additional product has been released called NDTRAX PC. This allows a person to see the hunting lands, fishing contours, streams, etc in Google Earth allowing the features such as Transparency and 3-D(terrain) to be used to zoom in and see the TRAX features against aerial data. It is awesome. You can see this and other great products from Kirsch's Outdoor Products at our website


PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:29 am
by Gone Fishin

What is the best way to get it updated? When is the best time to send it in for the updated 2010 info?


PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:40 pm
by kirsch
How to update:
1) Send the card back to Kirsch's Outdoor Products. Put the card in a bubble mailer and send it to:

Kirsch's Outdoor Products
7915 Aquarius Drive
Fargo, ND 58104

2) Include a check with the update for $20 or simply go to and pay for the update online.

Best Time To Update
3) I would recommend as soon as you need it. There is never a time when it can't be helpful whether ice fishing, predator hunting, spring turkey hunting, shed hunting, scouting, traveling, camping, etc. Any updates to 2010 will be included at no additional charge once you are on the 2010 version. I am not anticipating any additional updates to NDTRAX until just before hunting season to get all the new PLOTS changes which occur between now and September.


PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:46 pm
by oldfireguy
I just got my ND Trax 2010 in the mail today. I popped it into my Lowrance XOG and it is amazing! The only aspect I've not gotten to function yet is the Township/Range/Section indicators, but I'm not sure I need that feature for my use.
Thanks Kirsch!


PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:19 pm
by kirsch
OldFireGuy, thanks for the great report.

I like the XOG a lot but there are a couple of tips/tricks to get them to work all the time.

1) Township, Range and Section #'s: Go to Options - Categories Drawn - POI - All Others and make sure they are all turned on (especially Postal Service). Go back to the map and find an area of the map that makes a section of land. This is pretty easy to tell in many areas of the state as many roads make square sections. At .3 miles zoom, the section lines will appear if the roads aren't covering them, and then go to the exact center of the section. I am not sure why but as you zoom, the XOG has 2 zooms at 400 ft. When you zoom the 2nd time after 400 feet a mail icon will appear in the exact middle of the section. Move your cursor to it and hover over it or zoom in further and it will show a number such as T138NR56WS21. This stands for Township 138N , Range 56W and Section 21. If you do the same thing in Pembina, Morton, or Cass County it will show the Parcels of land and who owns it as well.

2) Satellite Lock: Once in awhile the XOG will not lock on satellites with any map in the unit, no matter who manufactures it. Simply remove the card, and usually it will lock on. If it still doesn't, turn it off and back on and it should lock on. Then simply insert the card back in and all is good.

3) National Forests: The XOG shows almost 1/3 of Western ND as the Custer National Forest. This is not correct and when you put in NDTRAX, it makes the Little Missouri Grasslands look bigger than it is. This is not an error in NDTRAX but in the XOG base map. Go to Options - Categories Drawn - Other POIs - and turn off the National Forest Category.

4) Lock Ups: The last thing is over the past couple of years that I have owned a XOG, a few times the unit has gone totally blank. A few multi-colored lines show up and the unit locks up. Again, nothing to do with NDTRAX as it happens with or without the map. Click on the reset button on the right hand side under the rubber flap. I keep a paper clip handy in my truck just in case but this is very rare.

Have a great 2010 using NDTRAX.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:04 am
by oldfireguy
I followed your instructions and indeed now have Township/Range/Section data.
It now does everything except feed my dog and yell at me when I don't keep my head on the stock.
I'll be showing this to a number of folks that hunt with me and you should be getting some more orders.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:53 pm
by brett3151
Hi guys,

I was interested in the NDTRAX and was wondering what the range township feature would do for you or what it is exactly. I was also wondering if all the plats or land owner information for each county in ND will eventually be added as it would be a great tool for scouting as it is sometimes hard to find out who owns what for permission. I was also wondering what kind of gps you guys would recommend? is their one that would work as a normal car gps and field tool? Ive heard Garmin is where its at.

thanks a lot defiantly going to invest in a GPS and the NDTRAX sounds amazing.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 7:22 pm
by kirsch
brett3151, the township, range and section number are standard elements on a County Altas or otherwise known as a PLAT book. NDTRAX 2009 used an 8 digit number such as 15906913. Ths would have correponded to Township 159, Range 69, and Section 13. This format although easy to search for wasn't the most user friendly. NDTRAX 2010 now shows this in a more traditional format such as T159NR69WS13. It still means the same thing. By using these numbers you can take the numbers from NDTRAX and find out who owns a piece of land in a PLAT book. Also section numbers are used for many other activities.

Your question on ownership is a good one. If ND had land ownership available in a GIS format for all counties, it would already be on NDTRAX. Montana does have this and the entire state is included with land ownership detail on the MTTRAX version. For ND, many counties cannot afford to have a GIS expert on staff or they are just beginning this work. For NDTRAX 2010, so far 3 counties are included with ownership information including Cass, Morton and Pembina. I will continue working with counties and as it becomes available and will update the maps. Thanks for your questions and let me know if you have any additional.


PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:17 pm
by kirsch

I looked over some older posts and realized I never answered your Garmin question. I do prefer Garmin over Lowrance or other GPS units as they tend to have the best antenna. It is hard to convince diehard fisherman at times that Garmin is better but I don't get any commission or sell GPS units and have used both brands extensively. My choice is Garmin.

You mention wanting an all-around GPS. The Garmin Nuvi 500 or 550 is hard to beat if you want a GPS that is good for everything. A good handheld such as a 60CSx or Oregon 300 or higher are great handhelds and the Nuvis are great automotive GPS units but combined you are talking about $500 for both. You can pick up a Garmin 500 for around $250 from many sources. It is like buying an SUV which isn't the best truck or car but can be used as both. This is a cross-over GPS. Waterproof, pre-loaded automotive maps, topo for US included, 4x better battery than automotives (8 hour) and the battery is replaceable, waypoints and trails, and more. If I could only buy one GPS and it had to do everything, this is the one I would buy.


PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:59 am
by kelly7898
Chris Hustad wrote:For hunting, I think it's going to be great. I think it does well with fishing, doesn't have Sakakawea yet though.

I also think so.


PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 9:41 am
I am interested in the MNtrax. Wondering if the plat if all the plats or land owner information for each county in Mn will eventually be added?


PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 12:16 pm
by kirsch

The answer is maybe. As of now, many Minnesota counties have this type of data in a GIS format but charge a very high premium for this data. There are 87 counties with most counties requiring a fee per parcel. Clay county does not charge and is included in MNTRAX 2010. Some counties are very high and some are lower. When Kirsch's Outdoor Products checked, it was estimated it would cost roughly $500,000 per year just for this piece of data for one state. The other potential issue is working with 87 different counties and update policies and attempting to keep this current without some type of central administration. Montana has this centrally managed making this much easier for my company to work with and utilize. Talk to your county and ask why there is a charge for this information as it will not change unless they hear it from people in their county. Thanks for checking.

The counties in Minnesota will show the sections and the township, range and section number for cross-reference with PLAT books.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:31 pm
by CJofWolfcreek
kirsch wrote:They will work in about Garmin or Lowrance that has a mapcard but I still recommend a color unit. There are subtle differences in the different land types that are much more evident on a color unit such as State Land being all blue, but still it works fine in a monochrome GPS as well.

Any idea on when the ndtrax will be compatable with the Lowrance Endura's? I noticed your web site specifically excluded them :(


PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:33 am
by kirsch
CJofWolfcreek, when Lowrance released their Endura series, they changed their map formats. This has caused lots of issues as any pre-existing Lowrance compatible map no longer works with the Endura GPS. There are only a handful of maps including 2 fishing map manufacturers which work with the Endura series currently. These are Navionics and LakeMaster. Even with Lakemaster, their Endura maps are very limited as they only show lake contours and no roads, etc. For those to work, there are actually 2 sets of maps on the chip as there is one mapset for the previous models and one for the new Enduras.

I am continuing to work with Lowrance and they have indicated they are working on a tool to help with getting the TRAX maps Endura compatible around Spring of 2011. Assuming they can get me this tool, I can begin to verify if a conversion/update is a possibility.

Continue to watch the Kirsch's Outdoor Products website because if there is a change in the Spring of 2011, it will be posted on the site. Thank you for your question and your interest in the TRAX series of maps from Kirsch's Outdoor Products.


PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:41 pm
by kirsch
I indicated I would post an update when the TRAX maps are Endura compatible and they are. The Endura maps are ready to go for ND, MN, MT, and WY. The rest of the states will be coming soon. Any Lowrance map which has a 2011 label should be Endura compatible.


PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:45 pm
by Dick Monson
kirsch, for those like me who tech dinosaurs could you brush us a bit? The only GPS unit I've used is a Garmin Legend C for marking some things around the farm and measuring field acres.

I'd like to hunt MN for upland sometime and the paper maps leave much to be desired as far as public and private ground, walking trails, etc. What GPS unit would give a decent sized picture when used with the MNTRAX? Ebay has lots of used units at decent prices but I don't have a clue what to get.

Do you sell a chip that could be installed in a laptop to print map info? Zoom it up? Like if a hunter was interested in a 4 sq. mile area of state forest and wanted the trails, etc on that ground?