what are the main diffences between these calibers? Which one is more accurate? Which has better ballistics? Which one is flatter shooting at long ranges? Which one would you recomend and prefer?
The .25-06 is better ballistics wise, it is faster flatter and alot of shooters feel that it is more accurate. However, it is the weakest knock down power wise of the 4.
The .270 is your next best ballistic round. It is both flatter and faster than the .30-06 but generally fires lighter bullets and therefore offers less knockdown power.
Many people will tell you that the .308 and .30-06 are identical. They are not exactly, the .308 is a lighter kicking short action round, it offers trajectory and ballistics VERY similar but not identical to a .30-06.
The .30-06 is the most versital round of the 4 you mentioned, you can get loads ranging from a 110 grain varmint load to a 220 grain solid capiable of taking buffalo. Horse power wise, it has the most knockdown and ballistics wise most factory loads will push a 150 grain bullet(the most common load) somewhere around 2850 FPS depending on the bullet type and manufacture. Trajectory wise it is no slouch either, a shooter that takes the time to learn his rifle/scope/load combination should have little problem connecting on deer sized targets at 400+ yards.
I can't really tell you which cartridge is best for you. It all depends on your terrian, the game you will be taking and your personal preference.
For example, if you are interensted in glassing and stalking pronghorn either the .270 or .25-06 in a quality bolt gun, would be good choices, where as if you are mainly interensted in deep woods hunting or deer drives the .308 or .30-06 in a fast handeling pump, semi-auto or carbine length bolt gun would be your best bet.
However, if I could only have 1 gun it would without a doubt be a Bolt action .30-06 with this rifle I could hunt everything from coyotes all the way to grizzly bear simply by changing loads.
Remington 7400 stated that very well. Although I have to say each one of them can shoot very well. We all have that that gun that shot great no matter what you put in it, then we have that that gun that would not hold a 6inch group no matter what you did. With that said the 308 probably has the most accuracy potential.
Chuck Norris kills 14 white people at the end of every week just to prove he isn't racist.
I find it hard to compair a .25-06 to the others. The other loads can be found in the same grain bullets. The .25-06 is found in smaller ones. Look on Winchesters site and you will see that the .25-06 for the most part is a faster gun but does have the energy that the bigger grns have. To understand what I mean a bit better try copairing the .25-06 to somthing like a .243 and compair the rest to the mighty .300 or the .338.
The relative merits of various cartridges have been debated since man began to stuff brass with powder and stick a hunk of lead on it. Over far too many hours of thinking bout the topic I buy into a few prime nuggets ...
1. The best cartridge is the chambering of your favorite rifle. For all intents and purposes there is incredible overlap in the uses for most all modern centerfire cartridges. If there is a rifle that feels right to you (for whatever reason) the best cartridge is the one that will make it go bang.
2. Modern premium bullets (particularly the TSX) have radically narrowed the performance gap between cartridges. A strong argument can be made that a 25-06 with a 100 TSX will give similar terminal performance to a 180 gr cup and core factory 30-06 load. OK trolls ... back under the bridge ... I'm not sayin ... I'm just sayin ... That I would not feel uneasy packing a TSX stoked 25-06 vs most any cervid in North America.
3. That being said, if a person doesn't handload, the 25-06 is the worst choice of the 4 polled due to fewer options with factory ammo.
Putting money where my mouth is? Well, should I ever get drawn for a moose tag here in MN, I'll likely be packing my Shillelagh, mannlicher stocked FN 7x57, with 140 gr TSX and peeking out a 1.5-6x42 SII. Have access to a couple Whelans and other bigger things, but carrying the coolest gun that will do the job means something to me.
Just so as not to hijack the thread ... a 25-06 is more than adequate for most anything roaming the great plains these days ... particularly if you handload and is the only one of the mentioned cartirdges in my safe (currently harboring M700 MTN .280, M70 FWT 6.5x55, said Shillelah, and the .25-06 comes out of a Browning 78 High Wall through 26 inches of octagonal death). But no flies on any of these cases for general purposes.
I have to agree with bwnelson. With the new line of premium bullets avialable the once solid lines between calibers has been blured. I personaly am using a .338 RUM right now and I am loving it I load anything from 210gr TSX's to 250gr Hornady Interlocks with great sucsess. To choose one of those that are listed I would go for the 30-06 in my mind it offers the most vercitility. You can load 110gr slugs for varmints on up to a 200gr TSX that would put a whole lot of hurting on anything you whacked with it!
All four cartridges have their pros and cons...but if you are just trying to hit a far off target on a 25-30mph cross-windy day, my bet is with the 25-06 or 270 at 3200 fps. I had a heavy barreled 25-06, and my buddy had a well tuned 30-06. We were shooting at a standard Outer's Target at 500 yards (lasered) on a very windy day with the wind blowing at 90 degrees across our trajectory path. The 30-06 had a hard time staying on the 4'x4' board. My 25-06 put one in the half inch red dot center, and then I changed my windage slightly, and the other two were 2.5" to the left about 3/4" apart, so the entire group was under 3" in spite of the heavy crosswind.
I took a nice mule deer that weighted around 350 at 307 yards with the 25-06. With the right bullets, it is adequate for anything in the lower 48, and I have read an article about a guy who used one to cleanly take a large grizzly in Alaska.
On the other hand, and because of the heavier bullets, I would rather have the 30-06 on an elk or griz hunt...
It all depends on what you are trying to do with them, but just so you know, I have both :wink:
Not to berate your story or the 25-06 but it sounds more like you just flat out shot your buddy that was useing the 30-06. Bigger heavier bullets tend to be less sensitive to wind than lighter smaller bullets ever if they are shot at a higher velocity. Also the design of the bullet and the B.C. will determine the bullet's ability to travel through a wind and impact a target accuratly down range. The most important thing in any shooting situation is the ability of the shooter. But a 3" group at 500 yards with no wind let alone a heavy cross wind is real good. I have seen worse groups than that at 100 yards with no wind at the range before! I do agree very strongly on the 30-06 for elk and grizzly to me it would be the better choice.
It is a common error of thought that bigger heavier and slower bullets "buck" the wind better. That is simply not true...Time of flight is everything, and it takes into account sectional density, ballistic co-efficient, and initial velocity. The amount of time that a bullet is subjected to the wind drift is directly proportional to the amount of drift. A 3200 fps 25-06 bullet will shoot the pants off a 2800fps .30-06 bullet in the wind 7 days a week. Any other conclusion is purely erroneous. The .30 caliber bullet's difference in ballistic co-efficient simply does not make up for the difference in initial and retained velocity at 500, 600, 700, 800 yards. Somewhere out there it would catch up...the algorhythm becomes complex, but at 1000 yards, the 25-06 100 grain bullet is still clocking 1144 fps, and the 30-06 165 SPBT is clocking 1178 fps, so it takes 1000 yards for the 30-06 to even catch up with the 25-06 in velocity, but because the 25-06 covered the first 700 yards significantly faster than the 30-06, it will still arrive at the 1000 yard mark faster. Somewhere after 1000 yards, the 30-06 will indeed catch up with the lighter 25-06 bullet, but my tables will not go that far, and at that distance and beyond, your argument becomes valid from the standpoint that the 30-06 arrived to the target in less time, and hence, drifted less. It is more physics than opinion.
Let me say that your are mostly right. But I was basing my statemant from data that I obtained from a Weatherby vanguard 30-06 that I used to own. I had achieved 3000fps from a 165gr bullets using 57grs of H4350. Now with that data we are closer to equal at 500yards with a mere .8" difference in wind deflection with a 10mph wind according to my Barnes manual. With a favor of 300 to 400 ftlbs of energy at that distance. So at 500 yards I still think that you out shot your friend and the results had more to do with skill and less to do with caliber selection. Also I don't believe that 3000fps from a 165gr bullet fired from a 30-06 is all that common given factory rifles and factory ammo but my rifle did it with safe handloads.
Let me say that your are mostly right. But I was basing my statemant from data that I obtained from a Weatherby vanguard 30-06 that I used to own. I had achieved 3000fps from a 165gr bullets using 57grs of H4350.
Heh heh..you didn't mention that you were achieving near .300 Winchester Magnum velocities. What is interesting is that I use the exact same load in my Ruger 77, but I chrono only 2700 fps, so I guess that we are both right within the limited parameters of two rifles.
Having said all that, it certainly is not common for a 30-06 to achieve 3000 fps with a 165 grain bullet, and it is certainly out of SAAMI specs, but no doubt, safe in that Weatherby action, so I would stick to the 25-06 as the best bet on a windy day for the layman, or non-reloader to get to a target at any reasonable hunting range in the shortest time.
But, like I said, I have both, and a Win 300 Mag too, and a .270 would sure round out my collection...heck, they are all excellent :beer:
I looked up my old data and found I was little mistaken my actual speed was 2956fps with that load. Still that velocity is not what you find in a manual but what can I say that rifle was a fluke and I kick myself for selling it. That load is in SAMMI specs though it just depends on which manual you look in I guess. But as you said they all fun to shoot. I luvin the hell out of .338 RUM right now it's another over achiever(3000fps witha 250gr Hornady)and can't wait for my .264WM to be finished!
All are good guns. The thing that seperates them is the size of round they were made to shoot. You realy cannot compair a 165g form a .308 to a 117g form a .25-06. I was just out shooting and the wind affected the .25-06 that I was shooting and not the .308. This case size and speed made getting though the wind easier. The .308 probalby has the down fall when it comes to flat shooting, but a .30-06 is right there with it. I just seen a guy shoot a rock at 600 yards with little effort with a .308 and had a bit of trouble adjusting to the wind with his 22-250 he also had. All guns shoot very well. When you look at it what are you shooting at and how much recoil do you want makes the differance. your not going to go out and shoot elk with a 25-06, but there are people that say a .308 is better for elk then say a 270 or a 30-06. The fact you can get ammo for all of them for elk but the 25-06 means how much more impact the 3 bigger guns have. Things like round type factory or self loading slug type will all make a big differance when shooting. I just learned that myself. For example I just got a new 25-06 to go along with my .300. I just put a new scope on the .300 and had far less trouble shooting the .300 to get it sighted where I wanted it then I had with the 25-06. It took a while to get the smaller gun sited. Wind is a major factor in the troubles we had. I like the .300 for the impact and long range I has. I dont like the recoil it puts out. I like the 25-06 for its light weight easy to handle and it has good speed and impact pluse if I want to use it for varmints I can, but I feel that its better used at the closer ranges for deer and same myself and shoot they bigger gun at long ranges. Out of the guns you listed I would say all have about the with the 25-06 being the smallest in speed and impact and just a bit lower balistics with the ability to get about a .4 co. the .270 is prabably the flattest shooting out of them all. The 30-06 has the most impact and the .308 is the self loaders dream.
I have read this thread with a lot of interest. I voted for the 30-06 as I truly believe that it is the most versatile caliber available. There are more powerful 30's, faster this or that, etc, but I think the 30-06 has the best balance overall. I read the note regarding "Bucking wind" with velocity as related to less time in the wind. I submit that most serious benchrest shooters have gone from 22 cal to 6mm for the ability to buck wind with a heavier bullet. I have studied the ballistic charts and found a number of interesting facts. A 100 gr bullet out of a 25-06 does not go twice as fast as a 200 gr bullet from a 30-06. A 100 gr .257 bullet sheds velocity much faster than a 200 gr .308 bullet. The end trajectory is not nearly what I thought it should be for the "speedy" 25-06, and not nearly as much better than the 30-06. There are many mysteries about ballistics, and I sure as h---eck don't understand them all. The 25-06 shoots faster than the 30-06 with comparable bullets, but it won't ever provide as much energy with the same comparable bullets. Which is more accurate? That is probably more a function of rifle, shooter, quality of loads than inherent accuracy. If we are at a point that we are looking for inherent accuracy potential, we're not talking about hunting rifles anymore. At that point we're talking about benchrest rifles. We're talking about weighing each bullet and sorting them, weighing each case and sorting them, weighing every powder charge to the 10th of a grain, etc. If that's what we mean, the 308 has it. All four are inherently accurate enough, and more, for hunting purposes.
Hello folks, I am just learning to use this electronic contraption and stumbled upon your discusion. This is one of the biggest debates around the camp fire in our deer camp, and although I realy do love both my prized pre-64 m.70 and my sporterized 03-A1 30-06s I always seem to grab my 25-06 when it's time to go hunting.
I do realize that the 30-06 is definitley a very versitile cartridge, and for the one gun hunter it's hard to beat ,but who wants to be a one gun hunter ? The 25-06 is by far a better round for varmints and predators and I believe it,s just as good for deer. I would definitley give the 30-06 the go-ahead when bear and elk are on the menu, but I think if had the oprtunity to hunt these animals I would still look deeper into the gun safe and find something with a little more thump.....like my 45-110 Sharpes.
By the way, Does anybody have a good recipe for a 110 gr. tsx in 270wsm?
I have a 2 - .223's, a .243, 2 - .270's. a 30.06, 3 - 7.62X39's and a 7.62 X 54, but quite honestly I think the 25.06 is the master of all !!! I want one.
Get one and you wont be sorry! I use 58 grains of H-4350 behind a 75gr. V-MAX and it is pretty darn amazing. Even though it starts out slower than some of the large cased .22s and .24s the extra twenty grains of weight seem to help it get across wide open spaces a bit faster, and whatever little critter gets in its way is in for a really bad day.
As for bigger game I am sold on the 117gr. SST's. My baby likes 49gr. of IMR-4350 and it seems to be a really great load, plenty of power for even large deer and very easy on the shoulder.
What this all about? You have the 30-06 and three of it's children. Before the flak starts the .308 was Eisenhower's BS brainchild to get the M14 (nothing but a Garand with a clip) to shoot full auto, Ha Ha Ha and is nothing more than a 30-06 short and it performs that way. Yes, yes I'm a 30-06 man and proud of it. Narrow of mind and wide of body.
This will be my first year dear hunting, and have read all of these replies. With all the physics aside, I am still debating between the 30-06 and the 270.
As of right now white tails are the only species on the menu, but I would like to be prepared for a possible big game hunt. any response would be helpful.
gn
This will be my first year dear hunting, and have read all of these replies. With all the physics aside, I am still debating between the 30-06 and the 270.
As of right now white tails are the only species on the menu, but I would like to be prepared for a possible big game hunt. any response would be helpful.
gn
You'll get a range of opinions about this, mgnordstrom, but one thing everyone will agree with is that whichever gun you choose you need to be able to consistently put the bullet in the right spot. If you can do that, either the .270 or the .30-06 will be fine for deer. If you are thinking of some elk or moose hunting in the future, I would go with the .30-06 or you might split the difference and get a .270 WSM. I wouldn't hesitate to hunt elk or moose with my .270 WSM; the only thing is that the bullets are a bit more expensive than either a straight .270 or a .30-06 and you can't find them at all unless you go to a really big sporting goods store. But if you can afford an elk or moose hunt, you can afford a crate of the .270 WSMs so you wouldn't have to worry about that too much.
For me, a .270 is great for deer and then down to coyote and varmints. A .270 WSM or a .30-06 is great for deer and then up to elk or moose. But that's just me and my personal preference -- you'll probably get responses that say a .270 is fine for elk and moose and I can't say that I disagree with that -- it's just not my preference.
No matter what you guys say I think we can all agree that the .30-06 Springfield is the most proven and versatile caliber ever. A .270 is very comparable to it though. The .308 is probably one to two clicks down from the .30-06. But, the .25-06(my dream caliber) is known to be basically a little magnum gun on its own. It basically comes down to what is your favorite color?
I've shot deer with all four cartridges. They are all fine deer cartridges at reasonable ranges. The 270 will probably have the edge at extreme range (>500 yards)
The success ratio may be a bit surprising. I suspect it has as much to do with the bullet used as with the cartridge. Here is how they rank in rate of my success on whitetail deer and the bullets I used:
#1 - 25-06 120 grain Sierra HPBT GameKing at 3100 FPS. This particular load is the proverbial "Hammer of Thor" on deer out to 300 yards. They drop dead in their tracks. Period. No exceptions.
#2 - 30-06 165 grain Sierra HPBT GameKing at 2850 fps. I've had dozens of one shot kills at ranges from 60 yards to 400 yards. It doesn't always put them down in their tracks, but they don't go far. I've had one clean miss (shooter's fault) and one lost deer in 25 years of using this load.
#3 - 270 150 grain Ballistic Tip at 2950 fps. Looks really good on paper, but I was not thrilled with the performance on big bucks. The bullet has a tendency to either zip through soft tissue, or blow up when it hits rib. Either way, it doesn't leave much of a blood trail. The biggest buck I ever shot was with a 270, a solid double lung shot, and I lost the blood trail in a swamp over a quarter mile from where it was shot.
I went back the next day and searched half the day to no avail.
#4 - 308 165 grain SST at 2600 fps. This load was a major disappointment. It zipped right through a doe at 100 yards, and the blood trail petered out in a dense briar patch. I was used to using 165 grain bullets in my 30-06, but I guess they were a little too heavy and the SSTs did not expand sufficiently at 308 velocities. I sold the gun - If I get another 308, I will use 150 grain bullets.
hello to all, first timer, just browsing , interesting topics.
I personally prefer .308 used it in the military and as a hunting calibre although here in Australia we have a wide variety of game it does differ from that in America.I have shot vertually everthing available except crocs [prohibited] all with my .308 Sako with Swarovski 6-24x50AO.From foxes to water buffalo horses donkeys camels feral goat and pigs.randes out to 800 metres Sorry ABOUT THE METRICS
the calibres that i have used range from .17 to .460 weatherby magnum
I was taught at a very young age never to be under gunned although it never really sunk in. Always experementing.with reloads and bullet weights and it all boils down to what game you are hunting, in my opinion if you feel that YOU and your rifle are up to the task AND YOU ARE CONFIDANT in your rig than thats what counts,everybody has there little baby, but one thing is for sure in my mind i would rather shoot a bear with a .460 weatherby magnum than with a 25-06 [personal prefrence]and last but not least where did DrHenley get his ballistic information from.
:sniper: GOOD HUNTING
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