North Dakota Fishing and Hunting Forum banner

Anyone heard of shooting .223 for deer?

336K views 394 replies 147 participants last post by  viking 
#1 ·
Looking at some sweet 'varmint' guns (AR-15 :wink: ) Anyone ever heard of shooting deer within reasonable range with a .223. I know its kind of small, but will a couple rounds bring em down? Don't own a deer rifle anymore so I would like to just buy one gun for all my needs. Deer hunting is only a couple days a year for me, not my main game.
 
#54 ·
What gun is that in the first picture?
 
#56 ·
Militant_Tiger said:
What gun is that in the first picture?
that is my all time favotire rifle. its a Sako L46 in .222. extremely flat shooting . ive killed ALOT of deer with that rifle over the years.

i do apologise if i killed the thread ( LOL). as ive stated before, ive hunted with the small stuff for years, and it gets to be a drag to hear the guys holler about how "small" and "inhumane"a 222 or 223 ( of even the 22-250) is for deer when 99% of them are just repeating what they heard another NON- educated person say on the subject. there's no substitute for experience when it comes to firearm. its easy for alot of people to come into a thread and repeat what they have read somewere else without the actual benefit of having the experience in the field to backup what they say. if you do a search on the internet for hunting with the 223, you'll find thread after thread of people who will tell you that the 22 cal. line of rifles is WAY to small.

i guess that until they experience hunting and taking a deer withsomething that doesnt beat them up,they will never know what they are missing!
 
#57 ·
Gunrunner, thanks. That's what I've been trying to tell these guys for some time, now. Some hunters need a lot more that the 22 centerfires can give, shooting in iffy conditions, longer distances, whatever, and that's fine if they need it. But, it doesn't matter how much power you have in that bullet, it won't do any good if it isn't in the right spot.
 
#58 ·
sdeprie said:
Some hunters need a lot more that the 22 centerfires can give, shooting in iffy conditions, longer distances, whatever, and that's fine if they need it. But, it doesn't matter how much power you have in that bullet, it won't do any good if it isn't in the right spot.
i agree with you completely. shot placement is also a big part of it, but thats a big part of it NO MATTER what caliber of rifle you shoot.

i will tell you a little story about my father-in-law i just got wind of today. Californias rifle season for deer runs for about 5-6 weeks or so. he spent all season in the hills camped with a bunch of his friends. he hunted hard, every day. about 2 weeks ago, he got a shot at a nice 3X3. he took the shot, squeezed off a round, and the deer hit the trail running. they examined the scene, and found very little blood. they tried to track the deer, figuring he got a bad shot on it, and they never found it {sic}. this last friday (last weekend of rifle season here) he was driving along doing some afternoon road hunting with a friend, and out of the brush about 40 yards away pops this fork. he walked out and stood right smack in the middle of the road. my father-in-law took careful aim and squeezed off,sending a bullet downrange. the deer stumbled a bit and started to run off. he scoped it again and just as it hit the brush, he squeezed ANOTHER round off. the deer did a 360' flip in mid-air and dropped. they decided to wait a few, just in case it hadnt fully expired. about 10 min. later his buddy looked up where the deer had fell, and there was another deer standing there ( so they thought). they didnt get a chance to get a shot at that one. they decided to go over and look at the fork he had shot, and guess what......THE DEER THAT WAS STANDING THERE WAS THE FORKED HORN...it had gotten up and ran off. they tracked it and lost the blood trail. they looked all of the rest of friday, and ALL of saturday, and never found the deer ( there were 6 of them looking saturday). he got so mad, he didnt even hunt on sunday, the last day of season, but just packed his stuff and came home.

the thing thru this whole complete story i neglected ( intentionally) to mention is that he was shooting a REMINGTON 30-06, one of the hardest kicking dogs on the shelf.

my idea in that is one of just speculation, but im thinking maybe it was one of two things. he had unintentionally inadvertantly knocked his scope off of zero, or the deer were just so damn close the bullets were wizzing right thru the deer before really having a chance to mushroom as they should ( the forkie left rib bones,some hair and a couple of chunks of meat behind...)

i do think that the AVERAGE hunter should match his rifle to his hunting situations. ive hunted in areas that a 500-600 yard shot was the norm on big mulies, and in places that a shot over 100 yards was extremely rare, with the norn never over 60 yards.i know my rifles well enough that i can
make long distance lethal shots with no problems with 22 centerfire rifles. alot of guys DONT. if a person isnt comfortable making long shots with there rifle, they should maybe think about matching the rifle to the area/shots they will be taking.if a person feels more comfortable shooting a larger bore rifle on longer shots, they should do that, but i dont think people should get on the net and tell everyone what a BAD idea shooting 22 centerfire is at deer, because that just isnt so.

its all really a matter of preference i guess. for a person to say " I WOULD NEVER DO THAT PERSONALLY" is alot different than saying "DONT DO THAT AS ITS A BAD IDEA BECAUSE THE SPECIFIC ROUND IS TO SMALL TO HUNT WITH"

i know one old guy who never lost a der in his life, and he always hunted with a 22 hornet, and another who hunted with a .17 remington who also never lost an animal.
( california law allows you to hunt with ANY CENTERFIRE CARTRIGE for deer)
 
#59 ·
There seems to be a "bigger is better philosphy" with a few people here. i am a experienced hunter and have used and own many guns of many calibers over the years. And the fact of the matter is, in the south at least..a 3006' and many other large bore guns are just overkill for avg whitetails. I have shot whitetails with solid shots with 3006, 270, 243,and yes, 223. To be honest I have had deer shot with all these calibers run and not drop like id like them to. The 223 performed no more or less better than any of the other calibers. It was however, the more accurate of all these guns. The 223 will kill deer reliably with good ammo and shot placement, and the fact of the matter is, this is true for any gun. Personally, Id reccommend the 243, not the 223., for distance reasons, but to disaparage the 223 as wimpy is simply not true. Ive noticed several people say that hunting witha .22 is not "ethical" due to something about "oweing the animal a clean death". First this implies that a 223 is the same as a 22lr. The ballastics as we all know are vastly different. A 30/30 is a .30 cal rifle as is a 3006.....but there is a world of difference.There is no surety of a "quick death" from any weapon or caliber. I have shot many deer who dropped like a rock, and many who had to be trailed for hours, who were hit solidly by large caliber rifles. If you can shoot a rifle with reasonable skill you can kill deer with a 223. Its that simple. Bigger is not always better. You do not have to snatch a 1 foot hole in a animal to deliver a fatal shot if it is placed where it should be. Ruining meat and rendering a animal tore to peices and worthless is also "unethical" waste. To me people who feel like they have to shoot some large caliber weapon incase they dont make a good shot need to go back to the range, not the gun store. Ill bet some of the same people downing the 223 shooters are bow hunters as well. Everyone knows that bows are notorious for wounding animals, and you are MUCH more likely to wound one bow hunting than rifle hunting. Dont get me wrong, I bow hunt myself...but the facts are just that, facts. You can outlaw 223 on grounds that it "wounds game" if you want, but if so, go ahead and ban bows as well for the same reason. Go to the range , learn to shoot, and take that 223 if you want to, IT WILL WORK.
 
#60 ·
I checked the legalities in North Carolina. NC does not by statute limit the caliber used for deer "except as mandated by federal law," whatever that means. 223, heck, even 22lr seems to be legal (I won't use the 22lr). I sure do have plans to use a 223 where the distance is short, the deer are not overly large, and carrying (lugging) a big gun is more effort than it is worth.
 
#61 ·
yes, you cant beat the 223 for deer. i think all youll really need to worry about is the distance ( although ive killed deer out to 550+ with my 222 and 223). as far as big goes, ive killed mule deer with both calibers no problem, so dont worry to much about that. i would not want to go elk hunting with one, but on theer there great calibers.
 
#62 ·
Gunrunner, you have got to be as tired as I feel. :D I'm hunting river bottom, flooded timber, so shots are seldom up to 100 yds, if that. I have 60 gr partitions and 70 gr semi-pointed for the 223. What do you suggest for bullet selection? I have no intention of using a varmint bullet for deer.
 
#63 ·
sdeprie said:
I checked the legalities in North Carolina. NC does not by statute limit the caliber used for deer "except as mandated by federal law," whatever that means. 223, heck, even 22lr seems to be legal (I won't use the 22lr). I sure do have plans to use a 223 where the distance is short, the deer are not overly large, and carrying (lugging) a big gun is more effort than it is worth.
I think rimfires are illegal for deer nation wide without a kill permit, but I could be wrong.
 
#64 ·
Agree strongly with Gunrunner....

I read all these same type posts 2-years back when my fishing partners all convinced me to forgo fishing for hunting season. E-Texas white tails aren't huge, but can grow to respectable size. I only have a .223 Ruger M77 scoped out with a nice Leupold (sp?) 4x12. I was concerned about the chances of wounding an animal. I checked with a local gun dealer and he sold me a box of Hornady Custom Load 67 gr. hollow points. I had never hunted before but spent 10-years with the .223 in the U.S. Army and also learned marksmanship skills there. Short of it is that I plugged a buck at 110 yards through the right shoulder. The deer made cover and I tracked him for 30-yards. The entry wound was small and no exit. Upon cleaning the animal, I discovered the left shoulder looked very similar to the ham on Gunrunners photo... a complete mess. The .223 blew the far shoulder completely apart. I still have the fragments that we could find. This buck was not a sensational rack but the deer was in the 130# range. Bullet selection and accuracy are probably key as has been stated. For me, I would take a "tack-driver" like my M77 .223 any day for the hunt.

That's my $0.02
 
#65 ·
your M77 sounds like its setup almost identical to mine. out here, long shots are almost unheard of ( where im at, and most of the areas i hunt). man if your buck went 30 yards after shooting it, that was nothing but an adreniline rush!...LOL.......now, the farther north or south you go from me, youll be more likely to get a longer shot, but youll be hunting semi-prarie land.

as far as loads go for the.223 for deer, i personally use the winchester supreme ballistic tip, but theres alot of off the shelf 223 ammo out there thats really good. the winchester supreme seems to have a somewhat controled expansion for a ballistic tip, and work really well on deer.what i would suggest is that you get yourself several different brands and head out to the range. you may try one specific brand in your rifle to find it doesnt shoot worth a darn, and try another that will drive tacks. thats one reason i like the M77 rugers so well ( as well as the older sako's) the M77 seems to be really accurate with whatever you decide to feed it off the shelf. way back, they ( ruger) had some heavy accuracy issues, but they have since corrected this ( but they still retain that "black eye" from those days as being extremely inaccurate) and are now one oF the most accurate rifles ive ever shot ( most being 1/2 to 1 MOA out of the box, and were talking there bolt guns, not there mini or semi autos!...LOL)

ANYWAY, I COULD GO ON ABOUT RUGERS ALL DAY LONG......hehe......

its really hard to say WHAT the best load to use would be thru your gun as all guns shoot differently. your best bet as i stated would be to go purchase a few different brands of QUALITY ammunion ( or reload several different combinations) and go shoot your gun.
 
#66 ·
MT, if you know af a federal law, that will, of course, take precedence. I'm just telling you what I read on the NC wildlife resources internet regs under FAQ's.
"We do not, by statute, define what type of rifle you can hunt with. Most rifles are governed by federal firearms rules. .22 caliber rifles are legal for taking big game by state law, if they conform to federal firearm guidelines. You cannot use rifles to take/hunt migratory birds or wild turkey. Some local laws also prohibit or may have restrictions on rifle use. Please see Local Laws of the Regulations Digest for further information. See the Hunting/Trapping regulations and click on "Local Laws" here."

Read it different if you want to. Like I said, it was not under consideration by me.

I like to reload my own, and I'm not sure where I would find those Hornady loads, but BassPro might have them. I'm pretty confident the 60 gr Partitions will do the job. I can get them to 3000+ fps. I have an NEF single shot with the bull barrel. They have a reputation for accuracy far above their cost. Still have to get it sighted in. Can't wait. Tired of working nights. (Heck, I'm tired of working at all. :D Only 9.5 years till retirement.)
 
#68 ·
You ever here the phrase, "Been there, done that." Well, that's pretty much me. Even so, if I had stayed in the Navy 3 years longer..... Ah well, I'll still have a 30 yr retirement at 61, and I'm outta there. :D I'm still working on a local rifle range, so will have to let you know.
 
#69 ·
8) when this disscusion pops up I am reminded of all the caribou that have been taken by native hunters with the Hornet and the .222 and moose and 2 ton walrus and even polar bears with factory slugs,,so with CORRECT BULLETS,,, yes the .223 is a deer cartidge.I have seen deer lost with just about every cartridge out thereand have seen deer taken with just about every cartridge out there.On personal observation,,, a number of hunters useing the 223 made more one shot,clean kills than an equal number of shooters useing trditional deer calibers,,,at equal various ranges and conditions.That said,,, the average shooter should use the heavier cal.s but lets let the other guy use what he wants and we ,,our choice......there is enough friction out there without us turning on our own.I live by an old quote that I read years ago....."no man has the right to tell another man what to do or how to live as long as he does not puposely interfere with me and mine................",,, sometimes it is hard to keep quiet,,,but it is always the wiseist(?) course :beer: :beer:
 
#70 ·
I bought a .223 last fall and ended up shooting three deer with it and had no problems. Two of them took only one shot, the reason i kept shooting at the other one is because i wasn't sure where i hit it. The longest shot was probably around 100 yards and it ran probably 30 yards or so after being hit in the lungs. To me, there isn't any doubt that the .223 can take down a deer if shot accurately so i will keep using it until proven otherwise. IF there is anything wrong with the caliber than why is it legal here in ND?
 
#71 ·
I wrote in on this subject last year also. This year I got my deer AGAIN with my .223 Rem 700. Also got my muzzleloader (50 Cal) doe with a double lung shot. In both cases they ran a short distance and went down. Saw plenty or guys blast away with their 7MMs, 30.06s, etc doing a-- shots etc. Still my opinion the .223 does fine. I always use heaviest grain and do not shoot over 100yards. Thats my rule. Even with the big calibers, it all depends on the shooter. See guys blasting away at 2-300 yard running shoots and hoping they hit and the caliber will make up for it. Thats Bull............See ya next year on this subject........

155MM
 
#72 ·
I can only repeat the essence of what I have said before. The gun cannot make up for a poor shot, for whatever reason. I think 90% of the shot is discipline and placement (throw in the proper bullet), and 10% is "enough gun." Enough gun will never make up for a poor shot and a great shot will almost always make up for "undergunned." Of course, I throw that out for anything that bites back. :oops: :D
 
#74 ·
glad to hear theres alot of you guys out there that think the same way i do.

generally, when you hear someone talk about how small a 223 is, and how ineffective it is on der, its generally someone just repeating what they have read previously on the net.

youve seen some of the damage a 223 can cause, and a few of the deer ive taken with 22 centerfires, and my sugestion would be to not listen to all of the bs on the net. if a person wants to give it a try, more power to them.......
 
#75 ·
Well I guess I am not an ethical hunter either. Yep I too have shot Deer with a .223 Remington, and not only in Rifles but also with a .223 T/C Contender Handgun.

Back in about 1983 or 1984 I was done Deer Hunting and a Buddy and I decided to try our hand at calling in a Fox. We were driving across the road to the White Rock Dam, and came across 2 hunters. These 2 hunters flagged us down and asked if we had a gun and could kill the deer they wounded. The Buck (a dandy 5x5) was standing perfectly facing us at about 100 to 150 yards. I got out of the pickup and placed my Super 14 .223 T/C Contender (and bypod) on the hood of my pickup. The guys looked at me like "you're gonna shoot that deer with THAT". I thumbed back the hammer, put the crosshairs in the middle of the chest and touched the 2 pound trigger. At the shot the Buck sat on his rump for a second or two and tipped over. After the deer was down then these nimrods asked if we had a knife to dress the deer with. After a small circus (these nimrods trying to field dress a deer) I dressed out the deer. After the fact I was glad I did as I found a perfectly mushroomed .22 Caliber 55gr. Hornady SX Bullet in the rear ham. The bullet weighed 46grs. and was a picture book perfect mushroom. How in the world did such an explosive bullet (muzzle velocity from the Contender Handgun was 2850 FPS) ever make it all the way through the buck and lodge in the rear ham if this cartridge is so underpowered?

On a different note last fall I shot a medium sized Whitetail Doe at an honest 200 yards with a single 55gr. Winchester / USA White Box Pointed Soft Point out of a Ruger KM77RFP MKII in .223. The shot was a perfect broadside presentation, and I had a rock solid rest. I placed the shot behind the near side shoulder, midway backbone to brisket. At the shot the Doe sprinted for 80 to 100 yards, slowed, stopped and tipped over stone dead. A finishing shot was not needed. There was an exit hole through the off side rib cage about the size of a quarter. In addition I did not find any evidence of bullet breakup when field dressing the deer.

I could go on to relate other instances of using the .223 & .22-250 on Whitetails, but I will leave it as is.

Larry

PS the Winchester 64gr. Power Point Bullet in .22 Caliber was designed specifically for use on Deer sized game according to Winchester. I have used this bullet in the past with good results. Another good choice provided the rifle in question has the proper rifling twist would be new 70gr. Barnes Triple Shok.
 
#76 ·
Yeah but you guys forget you are not the normal hunters. In my circle of freinds I am considered a crak shot and I bet I am not half the rifle shooter as most of you. The guys I have hunted with if I am lucky spend one day at the range and fire about 20 rounds per year, the weekend before the hunt. Some of them will wait till we get away from the city and line up some pop bottles crack off 5 shots offhand at 30 yards and say ok I am ready to go!!!?? Then I would say hey you dident hit Sh*t and they will say yeah but if it was as big as a deer I would have got it :eek: Well at least they are using 30-06s and 30-30 winchesters but to put a .223 in their hands would be a crime.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top