Long Range Shooting

Plainsman · Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:54 pm Post subject: Long Range Shooting

They have long range shooting schools in Kansas. The cost is around $3000 for a week, which includes board and room. The first week they teach people to shoot to 500 yards. A second week gets into 1000 yards shooting. Other places do it also.

Now after setting that up I have a question. I have been asked by about eight or ten people to do a week-end ( two day) long range shooting training. I suppose I would have to think about insurance. Would I be crazy to think about this? What would a person charge, $200. I don't know, never thought about it. Opinions please.

What else could a person do for people? Chronograph their rifles, run programs for their trajectory etc?

farmerj · Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:03 pm Post subject:

range estimation, wind reading, mirage, trajectory/Ballistics, ACI (angle Cosine Indicator) slope shooting. Temperature adjustment, cold bore shot, range book.

my experience has been not pulling the trigger, but WHAT happens before, during and after pulling the trigger is more important to learn. Pulling the trigger can be taught in the basement with an airgun, either rifle or pistol. Mirage, range estimation, wind can only be taught in the field.

Near as I know, Roseau MN has a dedicated 1000 yd range unless you head to the Cities. Not been to the Bismarck range yet, so not sure what is there. Where else would you look having this class?

Check this out too. http://www.snipertools.com/instruct.htm

zogman · Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:24 pm Post subject:

First of all I think it would a great idea!

Points to ponder:

1) All the persons in the class should have close to the same level of experience.
2) Keep the group to around 10 or so.
3) Allow more than one rifle?????
4) Probably lots of class work before going to the range.

Sign me up.

Plainsman · Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 9:04 pm Post subject:

Farmerj

Thank you and zogman for the response. As I am typing this here are some of my thoughts:

Day 1
Basic ballistics
Ballistic coefficient
Sectional density
Wind drift
Affect of elevation (mountains etc)
Affect of temperature
Affect of barometric pressure

Range estimations
Use of Mil Dot
Use of Mil Dot Master
Use of variable scope for range estimation
Use of laser rang finders

Wind calculations using instruments

Wind calculations using estimators the US Forrest Service fire behavior people use. This is the same estimators used by early US sniper teams.

Day 2

100 yards shooting
Sight in
Wind drift compensation
Hold over shooting on calibrated targets
Chronographing (up to three rifles each)
Run programs to 100o yards for each rifle chronographed.

100 to 500 yard shooting ---- or 1000 yard
Field use of Mil Dot
Field use of Mil Dot Master
Use of variable scope for range estimation (for 9 inch, 12 inch, 18 inch, and 30 inch targets).
Use of variable scope for holdover without the need for estimation
Shoot, shoot, and shoot some more.

There are probably other things I have not thought about. I’m not sure I want to do it, but I have a landowner friend with a valley that I could set up swinging targets in. It would give us a 60 foot backdrop to shoot against. Perhaps the most fun would just be getting together for some shooting. Who knows? Something to think about I guess.

Robert A. Langager · Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 9:32 pm Post subject:

Let me know when and I'll catch a flight!

Otherwise I will have to just pester you to death with more questions.

RC

DuaneinND · guest Joined: 22 Jan 2005 Posts: 120 Location: Tappen, ND

Maybe the first step would be to organize a "fun shoot" at the swinging targets to find out the level of interest.

farmerj · Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 11:01 pm Post subject:

zogman · Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:56 pm Post subject:

Plainsman,

Any more thoughts. My weekends are getting booked up.

It's just about a sin to have this much fun at my age

800 yards and he's down

Plainsman · Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:01 pm Post subject:

I have not dumped the idea, but I am real busy right now. I think I will retire in about a year and a half, then I will get real serious. It would be fun to get a few fellows together just for kicks. My youngest son lives in Grand Forks, email me your phone number again and I’ll call you. We can talk about it. Perhaps sometime when you are going through Jamestown we could go shoot. I have a couple spots that we can shoot to 1000 yards. I need to get a few more swinging targets.

Jiffy · Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:09 pm Post subject:

One week???? 2 days????

It takes much longer than that to get proficient with ANY firearm at those ranges. yah, you could teach them the basics but, how much would they retain. My response to that would be.....JACK SQWAT!!!!!

It took me a long time before I actually KNEW what I was doing. Even after SSP school I learned the finer points of marksmanship.

Good idea, but I think it would be in vain. However, if you could make some $$$$ out of the deal....it might not be a bad idea. There are a lot of "what-a-b's" out there. 1000 yrds....

zogman · Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:10 pm Post subject:

Skippy,

Most of us have been shooting for a long time. .270 over 300 rounds a year started in 1960. This would just be another dimension for me. I have shot a few deer at some very long range in the last 45 years. I don't think any of us senior citezens have to justify or get your approval in sharpening or adding another dimension to our shooting skills.

And as far as plainsmen goes he has forgot more about the ins and outs of a rifle than you will ever know

Burly1 · Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:10 pm Post subject:

Plainsman, Please PM me when you get something going. I am certainly not a dedicated long range shooter, but I believe I could learn a lot from attending the program and would love to see some of the long range rifles and scopes you fellows use. If time and schedule will allow, just let me know, and I'll be there. I'm gratified to see that I'm not the only one who's getting tired of these negative, berating posts that keep popping up. Good shooting, Burl

Jiffy · Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:34 am Post subject:

Hey ol' Soggyman,

You dont have to get your blood pressure up. I dont want to be the cause of some old dude croaking.

All I was simply saying was that a 2 day course or even a week course for that matter will do nothing. All you will be doing is passing on info. It is not enough time to develope a shooter. Plainsman knows it, you know it and anybody who has any idea about what it takes to shoot at those distances knows it. Do you have any formal rifle training????? Just wondering, you dont have to get ticked again

Jiffy · Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:55 am Post subject:

Burly 1,

Stick to Bass fishing....I think you may actually KNOW something about that. Come talk to me after you've learned something. I just wanted to give you an example of a "truly berating and negative post" so as next time you dont get the two confused.

Burly1 · Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:18 pm Post subject:

I made the statement that I felt I could learn a lot at a weekend shooting seminar. I know I have a lot to learn. Your post seemed to indicate that no one could learn anything in so short a time. I saw that as negative. Jiffy, you profess to be an expert, government trained long range shooter. Were you not a beginner at one time? I am a shooter, who would like to increase my skill level, and will take instruction where available, from those who are willing to share their hard earned skills. I really can't see where you would have a problem with that, but I guess you do. So be it. But as I said before, we can only assume someone's credibility by the tone and content of their posts. If your posts continue to be berating and negative, it doesn't hurt me. But if you really want people to believe anything you have to say, it has the potential to hurt you. If you don't care, why bother? This site is, and usually has been frequented by polite people with respect toward one another's opinions, and I have enjoyed it. I don't see the need to change it into a series of negative debates. If you have a difference of opinion, you can state your differences without getting personal. You are an intelligent man. Don't make us think otherwise, please. Good shooting, Burl

Jiffy · Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 6:59 pm Post subject:

Burl,

I am not an expert. Anybody that says that they are will be just setting themselves up for disaster. However, I am government trained. By the best I may add. I know a little about this subject.....

and when I see somebody question me it really "ticks me off"......I dont want to start any negative threads. Thats the last thing I want to do.

I dont blame you for wanting to gain knowledge on this subject. I just wanted to convey the message that it can not be done in 2 days or even a week. Thats all. Knowledge is power...however, practical application is another thing. You will NEVER become proficent in such a short time period. Thats what is important. Proficenticy!!!!

I have see alot of things.....lack of a better term....In my short 32 years of life but one thing I can say I have learned is that nobody "knows it all". I dont care what the subject is. Take care and I am always here to help. Thanks!!

Burly1 · Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:21 pm Post subject:

Right. I don't aspire to become totally proficient at long range shooting, although that could change some day. But don't you agree that by properly applying techniques used in long range shooting, that the average marksman could become a better hunter? That's what I would aspire to. I practice quite a bit with the high powers, but due to higher cost, do most of my shooting practice with a .22 lr. That in itself has helped me with learning to hold steadier, breath and trigger control, etc...I fully realize that I could never become proficient in a weekend seminar, but I bet I would pick up enough to help me out some. I hope Plainsman realizes his dream. We could use something like he describes. I'm sure that even though there are sniper wannabee's out there, he would attract some serious shooters as well. Thanks for your response and good shooting, Burl

DuckBuster · Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:25 pm Post subject:

Jiffy-

I agree with Burl, you have to start somewhere. If long range shooting is something people are interested in, get some basic training in 2 days or a week... then practice/build from there. I don't think anyone assumed they would be able to walk out of a 2 day course and expect to ripping 1000 yd shots at deer or targets. It would, however, give them a little view into this type shooting to see if it something they may want to persue further.

huntin1 · Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:28 pm Post subject:

I have been to 3, week long formal training schools, all taught by military sniper instructors. I've learned something at each school. While no training seminar will teach you how to be an accomplished long range shooter, it is possible, as others have stated, to at least gain the knowledge of certain aspects of the sport which can be taken home and built upon. After the seminar, and once a person gets home, is where the "work" or "fun" starts. If one is dedicated and practices the techniques that are learned, does research and continues to learn they can become proficient, but it will take alot of practice after the training.

Plainsman isn't claiming that he can make anyone an accomplished long range shooter in 2 days, or even a week. However, he is an accomplished shooter and has alot of information, learned over many years of shooting, and will provide the base of knowledge that a shooter new to long range shooting can build upon to become an accomplished long range shooter, IF that person has the dedication to continue learning and put in the many, many hours of practice that are required.

Hell, he can even outshoot me...........sometimes.

huntin1