Remington 700 ADL v.s. 700 BDL

[Stealth]

Awhile back I went to the general store to look for a .308. Anyway I already had my mind set on the Remington 700. The guy showed me the ADL grade and then he said I'd be better off spending a little more money and purchasing the BDL grade. I asked him the diffrences between the two I knew the BDL was more of a semi-custom grade but I wanted details. Anyway he told me that the BDL had a smoother bolt. Had something called a jeweled bolt, I dont know if the bolt metal or something is better for the jeweled bolt but it looked neat. He also said the BDL had a drop plate which I dont know what that is?

Other than that I coudnt really get anyhting else out of him except the BDL was better alround.

Does anyone here have any helpful input. I'd really appreciate it. The real thing I'm only concerned about is accuracy. If the BDL increases the accuracy of the rifle then I can reason with spending the extra $200. If not then I dont really care about the black ebony forend, or the bolt those are simple luxuries.

Well thanks for the help

Derek

[Plainsman]

Stealth

As I understand it the difference in the ADL vs. the BDL is mostly cosmetic. Remember the old 788 Remington for years it was one of the most accurate out of the box rifles, and it was Remington’s cheapest. There is no opening in the bottom of the ADL (no drop plate) which gives you access to the magazine. You must run your loaded ammo through the chamber to extract. I don’t like that. The difference in accuracy is meaningless. Some people think the ADL is slightly more accurate, because the stock is more rigid without the opening below the action for the drop plate. I doubt it makes a noticeable difference. I have about four BDL’s, not ADL. I want to be able to open the plate and drop all shells into my hand. The barrel if finished a little better in the BDL and perhaps will resist rust a little better. I’m not sure about bore finish. That is about all I can tell you. Check out the Remington web site.

[headhunter]

Droplate and fancier checkering/wood is the only difference. I have one of each, Its basically all cosmetic.

If you don't mind using your bolt to eject shells, buy the ADL........Just as good.

[sdeprie]

Let me get this straight: The guy recommending you spend MORE money is the guy selling you the gun, making the profit on the sale. Have I got this right? Personal opinion, notwithstanding the advantages listed of the drop-plate. Unless this is an investment, get the ADL and take good care of it. It is well worth the money and should do everything you will ever want it to do.

[Stealth]

Thanks for all the help.

Just from what I seen all the diff. just looked cosmetic like yall said. I never knew what the drop plate did.

I dont really mind ejecting the shells out with the bolt.

Now the big question, I just cant make up my mind. Synthetic stock, or wood.

The wood is pretty and very eye apealling. But is subject to weather damage from rain and even humidty.

Synthetic is weather retardent and looks neat if you like the tatical look in a hunting rifle. Other than than it is kinda ugly black, although you can paint all over them to camo them up.

Hmmmmmmm................

[sdeprie]

Oh man, that is the question, all right. Wood is sooooo pretty, but synthetic is so durable. For myself, I am getting ready to build several custom guns. One I want to make a presentation piece. The rest are shooters. By that I mean I want to be able to take them anywhere, put them through all kinds of crap, use them for walking sticks, canoe paddle, pry bar, whatever I need. The presentation piece will get a wood stock. The rest? You got it, synthetic. How do you want to treat your gun? If you aren't going to treat it any better than I plan to treat my "shooters", get synthetic. Some say the wood is more forgiving with recoil. That may not be an issue, but I thought I would mention it. So, have I answered your question? I doubt it. Just thoughts to share. Enjoy the choosing.

[Bobm]

IF you looked around you could find a used Bdl for the same or less than a new ADL the drop plate is nice when its bitter cold and you are trying to unload the gun in the dark, Safer too. I buy l my rifles used and have never got a bad one yet. Very few people shoot them enough to give them any appreciable amount of wear. I have Ruger model 77s and I wouldn't want to have to cycle the shells through the action every time I unload. If you look from after deer season to early summer there is always good deals on used rifles, right now is the worst time to buy and the best to sell. The money you save on used rifle can be put into a better scope, nothing is worse than a cheap scope.

[Stealth]

Just looked around on the net and they dont even offer the BDL in the .308 Win neither do they offer that caliber with the Wood stocked ADL.

The ADL Synthetic seems most popular and they offer it in .308. Also it is about $80 less than the Wood ADL, so ADL Syntehic here we come

[sdeprie]

That's still gonna be a LOT prettier than my 308, an Ishapore with a red dot. It's just plain ugly. But it's fun to shoot.

[Stealth]

How is the recoil on a .308. The bigges rifle I've shot was a SKS 7.62x39 and 20 ga. was biggest scatter gun.

How'd you compare the recoil to these catridges. Thanks

[sdeprie]

I haven't shot the SKS, but my guess is it will be a little stouter, but in the excitement of hunting you won't notice it. The gun may make it more comfortable, but a semi-auto in general tends to soften it some, usually. I'm sure if you load your own with maximum pressures with 220 gr bullets, you're gonna feel it. But that's not the usual load for a 308 for hunting purposes. You'll feel a 150 or 165 gr load, but it shouldn't be uncomfortable. At the range, you will notice a big difference in felt recoil if you wear your ear muffs. If it sounds loud, it will feel like a harder kick, at least it has in my experience. With a quality rifle like that Rem 700 (especially as opposed to my Ishapore) it will feel better as well.

Summary: Expect a little more than the 20 ga, but not uncomfortable.

[Stealth]

Yea, I have a .308 casing and I didnt think it would kick to much. That is one of the reasons I picked the .308.

1)It is the standard sniper round for U.S. military, so I'd like to get familar with it
2)Recoil is not hard
3)As long as you place your shots correctly it will work on most all big game animals.

Craig Boddington's(Craig Boddington is a great outdoor writer, I really idlize his words and take them to heart, I just think he had great experince) dad used his old .308 from everything to pronghorns to moose! So you know what they say shot placement is everything. And with the light recoil you don't flinch and when you don't flinch you place your shot in the right spot! It all works out

[Bobm]

Recoil is pretty stout in a light gun if you get to 180 grain bulets which is what I use in mine I have a Ruger ultra light in 308 and it kicks hard with bigger bullets but I usually only have to shoot it once at deer.

[Stealth]

Hmmm, I was planning to use for alot of things. Deer , load it down for coyotes and predators etc....

[sdeprie]

Bobm, do you think he needs 180 gr bullets for deer? I only load 150 gr bullets. I plan on using Nosler partitions. My range is not great and I don't think these swamp deer are going to be very big, although the doe I got last year was respectable. The recoil would be a little lighter with 150 gr bullets.

[Plainsman]

Sdeprie

I agree with you on the 150 gr bullet for deer. I shoot a 165 grain in my 308, but it is a heavy barrel, and I shoot Sierra Gameking. That is what my rifle likes so that is what I shoot. When you shoot premium bullets like the Nosler Partition the performance of these bullets lets you shoot lighter bullets. Here is my line of thinking. These bullets all mushroom to approximately the same diameter. Assuming that is true and they all penetrate the deer completely then the bullet with the highest velocity as it passes through the deer will do the most tissue damage. Hydrostatic shock is what causes tissue damage beyond the physical presence of the bullet. A friend of mine had surgery for a torn rotator cuff about ten years ago. He shoots a light (6.5 lb) 300 Win Mag. He loaded I think it was 110 gr X bullets. I watched through a spotting scope as the bullet struck a nice 4X4 buck. Upon impact the chest area visibly expanded and the buck ran 20 yards before dropping.

[sdeprie]

110 gr bullets in a 30 caliber. that's an interesting concept. With the chest cavity expanding, I'm kind of surprised it ran that far, but you never know how tough they can be.

[Remmi_&_I]

150 grain is more than enough. My first year deer hunting I used a 22-250 and that is still the best buck I have shot........and the luckiest aim!

[sdeprie]

Be careful. Some people are liable to tell you "the truth, no matter how much it hurts." I do have some 130 gr loads for my 308, but I am not convinced the bullet construction is adequate so I will reserve them for varmints, targets, etc.

[Bobm]

I have a 257 roberts and a lifetime supply of federal premium factory bullets with nosler partitions, they go right thru deer with little expansion. It kills them but no blood trail whatsoever and I wouldn't recomend them. I think they would be great for a tougher bodied animal like an elk. I have much better success with soft bullets on whitetails. Remington Corelock work much better in that gun. I shoot federal 180 soft point in the 308 and get real good results. No cripples in 34 years with that load over 50-60 kills maybe more I don't really know for sure. Most shot taken within 100 yards.

[sdeprie]

Well, I'm in luck. I just happen to have a couple of boxes of remington 150 gr core-locks, so I should be able to get by, eh?

[OneShotOneKill]

Remington BDL is the best choice!

I know Barnes doesn’t make a 30 caliber 110gr X bullet, but 110 grain 30 caliber bullets are meant for varmints not deer, bad idea! If you want lower pressures and velocities try Hodgdon's youth hand loading data for the 300 Win Mag.
http://www.hodgdon.com/data/youth/300winmag_y.php

Remington Core-Lokt’s are highly frangible with high weight loss, use premium bullets for your big game like Speer, Sierra, Nosler, or Hornady!

[Bobm]

Remington Core-Lokt’s are highly frangible with high weight loss, use premium bullets for your big game like Speer, Sierra, Nosler, or Hornady

!
BS

[huntin1]

I see that OSOK has blessed us with his superior knowledge again.

So little one, you know that Barnes does not make a 110 grain X. Well you are half right, they "no longer" make the 110 grn X bullet. I am the one that plainsman is talking about above. If I can find the box I'll take a pic for you, maybe then you will realize that you are not the all knowing firearms expert that you try to make everyone believe you are.

Core-lokt's are highly frangible huh, yeah right, so are Nosler Partitions.


huntin1

[Plainsman]

OSOK

A 110 grain bullet is only a "bad idea" if it is a varmint bullet, and light for caliber. Although the 110 X bullet was light, it was by no means a varmint bullet as you might think. The buck hunt1 shot, in 1994, was at about 200 yards, the deer field dressed about 190 lbs, and the bullet completely penetrated. Now lets look at a couple facts and see what conclusions we come up with. The 110 X could be driven well past 3500 fps. If it mushrooms to the same diameter as a slower 180 grain traveling 2960 fps which do you think would do the most damage? I would say the 110 grain. I say this because if they are both the same diameter, but one is traveling over 500 fps faster, and they both completely penetrate, then the 110 imparts much more hydrostatic shock, hence a much wider wound channel. I also disagree with you about the Remington Core-Lokt. There were very few premium bullets on the market 20 years ago. Today with the higher velocity capabilities of the newer cartridges bullet manufacturers were scrambling to meet the demand for a bullet that would perform at these velocities. The Remington Core-Lokt performed very well when held below 3000 fps. Speer, Hornady, and Nosler all make premium bullets, but not all their bullets are premium bullets. Also, I was not aware that Sierra had joined in by producing a premium bullet. However, when held below 3000 fps the Sierra Gameking will retain weight comparable to some of the new bonded core designs.

I wish they still made the 110 gr X in 30 caliber. I dropped deer faster than the 150, 165, and 180 that I used.

[zogman]

Anyone seen the new 700 CDL. In the ad I saw it appears to have the "classic" stock design. I own a 700 classic in 270 cal. Love the gun.

[sdeprie]

Plainsman, Hunt1, Bobm, you guys are going to confuse him with facts, again. You know that just makes him angry, and never convinces him. I suppose those 110 FMJ's are frangible, too, eh? If those were Barnes x-bullets, they were all copper, right?

[OneShotOneKill]

FMJ bullets are not designed to mushroom, so they are not frangible. I hope know one is using FMJ bullets for hunting, check your state hunting regulations first.

Barnes X bullets don’t reliably expand like other proven manufactures designs. Barnes has deleted the 30 caliber 110 grain X bullet from their inventory for a very good reason Please stick to bullets 150 grains or heavier for your 30 caliber rifle if your big game hunting.

Nosler Partitions are the best bullet for all big game applications!

Remington Core-Lokt’s are perfect for lower velocity performers like the 30-30 Winchester & 7x30 Waters in the Thompson Center Contender for deer sized game, but there isn’t a need for them when you have Sierra’s BTSP on your bench.

[sdeprie]

Whoosh!

[huntin1]

OSOK,


Barnes X bullets do reliably expand, both Plainsman and I have used them extensively and they are a devastating bullet no matter what the weight. I do not know where you got your information but the person I spoke to at Barnes several years ago said the the 110 X was dropped because of low demand, no other reason. He said that even though the 110 X was designed to expand and work well on deer sized game the consumer outlook was that 110 grain 30 cal. bullets were only for varmints. (A myth perpetuated by most gun writers out there who as far as I can see know just enough about firearms to make them dangerous, kinda like someone else I know) Add to that the fact that the majority of the 110 grain 30 cal. bullets are designed as varmint bullets, there just wasn't enough of a market to keep them in the line. Kind of funny how that is, and then people think nothing of using a 100 grain .243 cal bullet for deer.

Here endeth the lesson.

sdeprie,
To answer your question, yes the 110 X was all copper, hollow point.


huntin1

[Plainsman]

Let me add a little here. OSOK the statement that desprie made about solid copper does not compute to full metal jacket. The X bullet is not a full metal jacket, rather it is a homogenous copper bullet with neither a jacket or a core. It does have a hollow point so expands reliably at velocities as low as 1700 fps as stated by the manufacturer. The early production prototypes of the 1980’s had a few problems, but since the early 1990’s these bullets have performed flawlessly. They have been continually improved and the new triple X in my estimation is perhaps one of the best penetration expansion ratio bullets on the market for very large game. I like my smaller animals like deer to go down a little faster so have gone to Nosler Ballistic tip and Swift Scirocco bullets. A deer isn’t enough animal to contain an X bullet so energy transfer isn’t efficient in this size game. Elk, Moose, or bear is a different story. The only X bullet I would use today for deer if they would make it is the 110 gr X bullet. The high velocity creates a wider wound channel than the heavy 150’s and up.

[OneShotOneKill]

Yes thank you, Barnes deleted them from the inventory for that good reason, low demand for a 30 caliber 110 grain varmint bullet for deer, Good Job! I have witnessed a 100gr X-bullet driven from a 25-06 Remington travel full length of Antelope and never expand from chest to tail. It was a sad sight to watch that animal suffer, so I took it down with my 243 Winchester using 100gain Nosler Partitions, which is also excellent for deer sized game if in the hands of a capable shooter. Barnes have had a lot of problems with their copper alloy and the animals suffer during their failure process, sad!

I guess there is another reason for Barnes deleting the 30 caliber 110 grain X bullet, so some people don’t use the wrong weight bullet for big game hunting, like a couple of guys I know! Yes, you got it, X-bullets are not FMJ, nice job. 30 calibers 110 grain Non-FMJ’s are varmint bullets nothing more. All these light weight bullets will not hold the energy of their heavier counterparts which are designed for big game hunting applications. I am grateful Barnes did their job.

[Plainsman]

OSOK

That’s funny I have never seen an animal wounded with a 110 X bullet, and I have seen about ten deer taken with one. A 110 X bullet isn’t enough out of a 300 Winchester Mag for deer, but a 100 gr Nosler Partition is? What are you smoking? A 100 grain 25-06 through an antelope stem to stern and you had to end it with your 243? I enjoy the humor you provide.

Page 7 Barnes reloading manual --- “Barnes Bullets are made from a pure copper, not a copper alloy like other manufacturers"
, Lost River Ballistics J36 are copper nickel alloy.

110 gr X will not hold energy? A whitetail requires 1000 ft/lb delivered to target. With a 110 gr X which I loaded to 3600 fps I started with 3165 ft/lb of energy. Granted it looses energy fast, but is above that 1000 ft/lb standard beyond 400 yards. If I remember right you didn’t think anyone should shoot that far.

So which is it OSOK, you can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Is it:

#1 = 110 X bullet not enough for deer = 243 to small for deer
Or is it:
#2 = 243 good enough for deer = 110 X bullet good enough for deer

Don't start telling me about ballistic coefficients and sectional density, a 110 grain bullet of 30 caliber travelling at 3600 fps is much more lethal than a .243 caliber 100 gr bullet traveling at 3000 fps period. Also, my 30 caliber is nearly the diameter of your .243 after it mushrooms. Don't get me wrong I like a 243, I have had five of them, but your logic is seriously flawed.

[huntin1]

Oh my god, you mean you used a 100 grain bullet for deer? Shame on you. Just because a bullet is only 110 grains does not mean that it is a varmint bullet. Call Barnes and ask them if they ever intended the 110 to be a varmint bullet, the answer will be no. Using your analogy of all light weight bullets being varmint bullets then nothing under a .270 should be used for deer cause I can't find any calibur with a bullet that weighs the 150 gr minimum that YOU have set for all of us. I guess YOU will have to stop hunting with that 243 cause the heaviest bullets you can get for it are those nasty 100 grain varmint bullets.




huntin1

[OneShotOneKill]

Plainsman & huntin1 , face it you two are nothing more than but another pair of hunters / hand loaders I will give you that much. I truly enjoy this no contest for myself debate.

I did call Barnes, the thing is you guys need to call and ask that same question. Have your wives hold your hands and she can have the tissues ready for you damp eyes, HA HA!!! It only gets better from here!

huntin1 read again slowly, I instructed you to use a 150 grain bullet minimum for 30 CALIBER rifles while big game hunting!

Its #3 = 243 caliber 100 grain bullet are excellent for deer = 30 caliber 110 X bullets good enough for a coyote = varmints.

30 caliber 110 grain bullets are varmint bullets. 243 caliber 100 grain bullets are big game bullets.
You are correct 400 yards is too much, its is further then 300 yards, use a calculator if you get stuck. 300 yards is the maximum range for ethical big game hunters.

Sorry Plainsman it is impossible to type slowly enough for you to understand when I start explaining coefficients and sectional density to you.

Humor is good, but facts are shocking. I hope you both are keeping notes.

[huntin1]

I'm outa here, this is going nowhere.

huntin1

[Plainsman]

Hunt1

I agree this is just going to turn into a pi$$ing contest, if it hasn’t already. Wish I hadn’t got involved. I am going to check with H&R and see what the bore diameter is for their 17 HMR. If it is right I could buy a barrel for my current H&R center fire have the 17 HMR installed and rechamber to 17 K Hornet. See you on another thread.

Like I said on another thread I am riding this nag of into the sunset before she becomes another dead horse being beat and beat. Adios. Hi Ho Ackley away, giddy up you old nag, haw.

[OneShotOneKill]

Cool, I can’t believe you caved so easily! Have a great day!

[Fireblade545]

For people saying they want to put a deer down "faster" using a BT instead of X bullet you are STUPID. Ill show you what a .270 Win loaded with 130Gr. Barnes X bullet will do to a whitetail and show you how fast it will hit the ground.

[Plainsman]

I have shot deer with a 270 X bullet 130 grain. They do go down sometimes, but I have found that they normally stay on their feet longer with an X bullet. The wound channel of an X bullet is different than a BT or soft nose. If you look at the chart that Barnes provides you see a 150 grain soft nose gives a very large wound channel initially (six to seven inches in diameter) for about eight inches. Then over the next four inches it tapers down to about two inches. The X bullet opens readily, but the wound channel is about 4 inches in diameter. The wound channel for an X bullet however can travel for 32 to 34 inches (150 gr bullet at 2900 fps) and keep that diameter. Therefore, the X bullet provides more cubic inches of tissue damage over all. This is wonderful for large game like moose etc. but a deer is not 32 to 34 inches through. They always die, but the on average run further. I like the Ballistic Tip when I am hunting with friends, because they normally run a little ways with the X and hunting partners may think you have missed and keep shooting at the deer. I have shot deer with 22 caliber X, 243 caliber X, 270 Caliber X, 30 caliber X, and 45 caliber X. Your dialogue is so rude I would think you are OSOK writing under a different name. Right? Doing (or saying) the same thing over and over expecting different results is the definition of insanity. I’m simply not nuts enough to continue a conversation with someone who through their behavior exhibit’s a mental problem. I’m not as angry as I am disappointed that people would publicly exhibit such asinine juvinile behavior. It is fodder for the anti gun crowd. They will point to it and tell the public that we are all social misfits. Your impressing people, but not in the way you might think.